How do I know if/when my bike is sumping?
#1
01-03-2019, 11:44 AM
How do I know if/when my bike is sumping?
There is a ton of info and misinfo running around the forums concerning a condition we call sumping.
Sumping is simply explained as more oil going into the engine than being removed from the bottom of the engine.
As oil builds up in the crankcase it starts to contact the flywheels creating drag...just like a boat in water. The deeper into the oil the more drag created.
From a power standpoint and an important consideration when wondering if your bike sumps, can be as much as 30+ hp down from when the engine wasn’t sumping.
So how do I tell when my bike starts sumping? Here’s a few clues to look for.
1. While riding down the highway and you notice you need to increase the throttle to maintain speed.
2. Feeling as though the brakes are dragging when rolling off throttle that seems like excessive compression braking.
3. Notice feeling more-than-normal heat from the engine and exhaust.
4. Notice pinging when trying to accelerate from lower rpms in higher gears (high load).
5. More than 4 oz left in the sump after run at high rpm (>3500) for a few couple minutes.
So what is the absolute best way to tell if my bike is prone to sumping? Get it tuned (run on the wheel) by an experienced tuner and he’ll put the bike through known conditions that normally induce sumping. That’s what will produce peace of mind.
So, when I identify my bike sumps what can I do to alleviate sumping condition on my way to taking it in for warranty work to get it fixed?
Let the bike idle for a minute or two. This will give the scavenge (oil removal) side of the oil pump time to remove leftover oil faster than oil being pumped in. Then ride the bike at lowest practical rpm to discourage sumping.
Hoping this helps understand what sumping actually is and how to tell.
Bob
Sumping is simply explained as more oil going into the engine than being removed from the bottom of the engine.
As oil builds up in the crankcase it starts to contact the flywheels creating drag...just like a boat in water. The deeper into the oil the more drag created.
From a power standpoint and an important consideration when wondering if your bike sumps, can be as much as 30+ hp down from when the engine wasn’t sumping.
So how do I tell when my bike starts sumping? Here’s a few clues to look for.
1. While riding down the highway and you notice you need to increase the throttle to maintain speed.
2. Feeling as though the brakes are dragging when rolling off throttle that seems like excessive compression braking.
3. Notice feeling more-than-normal heat from the engine and exhaust.
4. Notice pinging when trying to accelerate from lower rpms in higher gears (high load).
5. More than 4 oz left in the sump after run at high rpm (>3500) for a few couple minutes.
So what is the absolute best way to tell if my bike is prone to sumping? Get it tuned (run on the wheel) by an experienced tuner and he’ll put the bike through known conditions that normally induce sumping. That’s what will produce peace of mind.
So, when I identify my bike sumps what can I do to alleviate sumping condition on my way to taking it in for warranty work to get it fixed?
Let the bike idle for a minute or two. This will give the scavenge (oil removal) side of the oil pump time to remove leftover oil faster than oil being pumped in. Then ride the bike at lowest practical rpm to discourage sumping.
Hoping this helps understand what sumping actually is and how to tell.
Bob
The following 2 users liked this post by FLTRI17:
Davii (01-03-2019),
Peter Quinn (01-06-2019)
#2
01-03-2019, 11:56 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
I only go above 3,500 when accelerating. Even then I rarely go above 4,000. So, my time spent above 3,500 is less than 5 second bursts. When cruising I go to the next higher gear to keep it under about 3,200. My max cruising speed is 85mph, and that’s about 3,200 RPMs in 6th gear.
So, per your description, I shouldn’t sump?
So,
So, per your description, I shouldn’t sump?
So,
#4
01-03-2019, 12:22 PM
I only go above 3,500 when accelerating. Even then I rarely go above 4,000. So, my time spent above 3,500 is less than 5 second bursts. When cruising I go to the next higher gear to keep it under about 3,200. My max cruising speed is 85mph, and that’s about 3,200 RPMs in 6th gear.
So, per your description, I shouldn’t sump?
So,
So, per your description, I shouldn’t sump?
So,
#5
01-04-2019, 11:30 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
I ride even tamer than that. Shift around 3,500 so that when I upshift I am in my preferred RPM range of about 2500-2700 .RPM. We’ll see if this changes after my Stage 1.
#6
01-04-2019, 02:07 PM
There is a ton of info and misinfo running around the forums concerning a condition we call sumping.
Sumping is simply explained as more oil going into the engine than being removed from the bottom of the engine.
As oil builds up in the crankcase it starts to contact the flywheels creating drag...just like a boat in water. The deeper into the oil the more drag created.
From a power standpoint and an important consideration when wondering if your bike sumps, can be as much as 30+ hp down from when the engine wasn’t sumping.
So how do I tell when my bike starts sumping? Here’s a few clues to look for.
1. While riding down the highway and you notice you need to increase the throttle to maintain speed.
2. Feeling as though the brakes are dragging when rolling off throttle that seems like excessive compression braking.
3. Notice feeling more-than-normal heat from the engine and exhaust.
4. Notice pinging when trying to accelerate from lower rpms in higher gears (high load).
5. More than 4 oz left in the sump after run at high rpm (>3500) for a few couple minutes.
So what is the absolute best way to tell if my bike is prone to sumping? Get it tuned (run on the wheel) by an experienced tuner and he’ll put the bike through known conditions that normally induce sumping. That’s what will produce peace of mind.
So, when I identify my bike sumps what can I do to alleviate sumping condition on my way to taking it in for warranty work to get it fixed?
Let the bike idle for a minute or two. This will give the scavenge (oil removal) side of the oil pump time to remove leftover oil faster than oil being pumped in. Then ride the bike at lowest practical rpm to discourage sumping.
Hoping this helps understand what sumping actually is and how to tell.
Bob
Sumping is simply explained as more oil going into the engine than being removed from the bottom of the engine.
As oil builds up in the crankcase it starts to contact the flywheels creating drag...just like a boat in water. The deeper into the oil the more drag created.
From a power standpoint and an important consideration when wondering if your bike sumps, can be as much as 30+ hp down from when the engine wasn’t sumping.
So how do I tell when my bike starts sumping? Here’s a few clues to look for.
1. While riding down the highway and you notice you need to increase the throttle to maintain speed.
2. Feeling as though the brakes are dragging when rolling off throttle that seems like excessive compression braking.
3. Notice feeling more-than-normal heat from the engine and exhaust.
4. Notice pinging when trying to accelerate from lower rpms in higher gears (high load).
5. More than 4 oz left in the sump after run at high rpm (>3500) for a few couple minutes.
So what is the absolute best way to tell if my bike is prone to sumping? Get it tuned (run on the wheel) by an experienced tuner and he’ll put the bike through known conditions that normally induce sumping. That’s what will produce peace of mind.
So, when I identify my bike sumps what can I do to alleviate sumping condition on my way to taking it in for warranty work to get it fixed?
Let the bike idle for a minute or two. This will give the scavenge (oil removal) side of the oil pump time to remove leftover oil faster than oil being pumped in. Then ride the bike at lowest practical rpm to discourage sumping.
Hoping this helps understand what sumping actually is and how to tell.
Bob
1) Measure the oil in your M8 engine following the procedure specified in your owner's manual. Your engine should be at or near full level. Take a picture of the oil level on the dipstick before starting step 2.
2) Ride the bike for about 75-100 miles with both highway speeds and higher rpm twisty roads, riding without significant stops or turning off the engine.
3) Use the same procedure in step 1 to measure the oil level at the end of step 2 without idling for any significant period at the end of the ride. Take a picture of the oil level on the dipstick at the end of the ride and compare to the first oil level picture.
A) If the dipstick oil level in step 1 equals or is close to the oil level in step 3, then your bike isn't sumping and is unlikely to sump in the future. Forget about sumping and enjoy the bike.
B) If the oil level in step 3 is down 2-4 rows of dots, then your engine may have a mild case of sumping as there is likely more oil in the crankcase than there should be. Its worth sharing your pictures and findings with your dealer.
c) If the step 3 dipstick level is very low (down to ADD OIL) compared to the oil level in step 1, your M8 engine has a serious sumping issue. The missing oil between step 1 and step 3 has collected in the bottom of your crankcase due to sumping. Share your findings and pictures with your dealer. It needs to be addressed before the engine fails as a result of sumping.
Last edited by Heatwave; 01-04-2019 at 02:22 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Litterbox (01-05-2019)
#7
01-05-2019, 12:05 PM
I only go above 3,500 when accelerating. Even then I rarely go above 4,000. So, my time spent above 3,500 is less than 5 second bursts. When cruising I go to the next higher gear to keep it under about 3,200. My max cruising speed is 85mph, and that’s about 3,200 RPMs in 6th gear.
So, per your description, I shouldn’t sump?
So,
So, per your description, I shouldn’t sump?
So,
Bob
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#8
01-05-2019, 12:23 PM
I only go above 3,500 when accelerating. Even then I rarely go above 4,000. So, my time spent above 3,500 is less than 5 second bursts. When cruising I go to the next higher gear to keep it under about 3,200. My max cruising speed is 85mph, and that’s about 3,200 RPMs in 6th gear.
So, per your description, I shouldn’t sump?
So,
So, per your description, I shouldn’t sump?
So,
#9
01-05-2019, 12:35 PM
To give you peace of mind just check the sump . It is easy anyone can do it. Riding bike make sure it is at operating temps. Park it , let it set about a minute or so. Pull the Crank sensor. have a measuring cup under it collect what comes out 6 oz below out crank sensor back .
Check oil and ride if more comes out see dealer. Most likely very little will come out. It does not take long to do
Check oil and ride if more comes out see dealer. Most likely very little will come out. It does not take long to do
#10
01-06-2019, 10:47 AM
Tourer
I find myself now shifting around 3500 RPM, after adding SE High Flow AC, and then Street Cannons and Stage I ECM flash. I used to shift around 2500 or so. Bike also feels much smoother now.