Sweeper Curve Wobble on the 14, Have you experienced it?
2016 Two Years Later Edit... I watched a Youtube video by BBC Performance for a Touring Bagger Makeover on a 2016 Harley Davidson Road Glide. They re did the Triple Tree to reduce the angle of the Neck Tube to the Forks. Because of the inadequacy of the suspension on the Rushmore, Harley raked the Fork Tube on the Rushmore to increased stability at speed. The Sacrifice was serious instability at parking lot speed. But because of the inadequate suspension, the Harley still wobbles when being pushed through high speed sweeper curves... The guys at BBC Performance put Ohlin #6 Shocks on the back and changed the front suspension. They made a new Triple Tree to change the angle of the Neck Tube in relation to the forks from a 7 inch trail to a 4.5 inch trail which made the bike stable to 150 MPH. Most Sport touring bikes run in the 4 to 5 inch trail range. Trail is the inches between the angle of the neck tube and the angle of the forks on an imaginary line at ground level. Again the reason for the increased rake was to compensate for Cheap Suspension. The Inadequate Suspension causes the high speed sweeper curve wobble. The Harley solution of increased rake is adequate for the average rider who will never push a bike 20 or 30 mph above the posted speed through a turn, but thrill seeking adrenaline junkies like myself will experience the High Speed Sweeper Curve Wobble on the stock suspension. It's a bit unnerving when the bike starts bucking through a turn. I have ordered a set of #6 Ohilns for the rear from Howard at Motorcycle Metal. They will be here mid August. I will report back with a review when I get them on and take her thru a workout... ................. Edit 8-30-2016 Got the Ohlin #6's installed on the rear... They are a game changer as the back end no longer bounces in the turns... It never lifts the front causing rear wheel steer until the front end comes back down... The rear end maintains constant contact absorbing the bumps without transmitting any of that bounce to the front end... . After getting the rear wheel under control... The deficiency of the front suspension is glaring... I'm gonna do the front asap... get back to ya soon with more details... ........................................... ............................................. ................................ ............................. The following post is My Original post from 2015: The Wife and I were burning a turns on the Dragon last summer... There was no wobble in these tight little turns. It was fun but I never got out of second gear... I prefer the Big Sweepers on the 3 Sisters in Bandera Tx... It feels to me like the bike handles better when I packing the wife.
I ride my 14 Ultra Limited CVO to every day to work. There is a Sweeper in the HOV in which I hit about 65 or 70 mph. There is some kind of imperfection in it and when I hit that area, the bike goes into a pretty aggressive wobble or wiggle if you will. Rolling back the throttle dampens the wobble pretty quickly. As I ride the path every day I have experimented with different ways making that corner and reducing the wobble. I have noticed that the 14 goes up and down in the corners more aggressively than my 07 Ultra Limited did. The 07 kinda went up and down with a resistance like a Gyroscope. I liked the feel of that gyroscope handling. On the 14 very slight movements or pressure on the bars make it bounce up and down quickly. It also does not lay over as far as the 07 frame in the same turns. I liked the feel of laying down in a curve. On the 14's I can actually take the turns about ten mph faster, but it is not as much fun because the angle of the bike as you sweep is not as acute as the 07. I have read several threads on Bagger Wobble and the quote below by LowJoe was a good description of the wobble. The folks who say there is no Wobble just have not pushed their bike as hard in a Sweeper as the guys who have experienced the wobble. The new Wing is way different than the old one. I believe the old wing actually provided a little lift when layed down into a sweeper... Which helped with the stability in sweepers... This new wing I believe was trimmed for straight line speed and had no thought about what is does in sweepers. I saw some references to a brace in the other threads. Does anyone have a pic or link to the brace. What does it do? How does it help? I have the air shocks that came with the CVO. Is there a better shock? Has anybody swapped out from the air shock to a different one? If so how did it affect the handling in the sweepers if at all? This is my second 14 as the 1st one was totaled out from under me by a Drunk Driver... I was parked off the road in a driveway when a Drunk followed my tail lights and rear ended me going 60... Anyhow both 14's handled the same and had the same aggressive up and down movements and wobble when you hit slight bumps or imperfections in the Sweepers.
Originally Posted by Sunnyday91360
Only my 2 cents, but on the same mountain roads, at the same speeds, my ’10 RK showed no evidence of a wobble after 32,000 miles of riding and it had the same frame as my new bike. The ’14 SGS is a great bike and at speed in a straight line appears to be stable, but the new design feels to me like the front end gets very light at speed and in a turn all it takes is a little bump to get it airborne ever so slightly, but enough to get the wobble. In a straight line you’re not turning the bars, but in a turn that momentary lift initiates a sequence of reactions from you and the bike crating the “front end wobble”, which I think is much different then the old death wobble from years past.
Originally Posted by Kcdcltd
My 2014 Limited will wiggle her hips if pushed very hard thru a sweeper. Just a slight wiggle. Have felt nothing in the steering head which is a much more unpleasant feeling. Rear shock air pressure seems to have an effect on mine. Less than 25 lbs and she will move a little when pushing a sweeper say 15-20 over posted speed. I will run about 40lbs in the mountains and will have to be very aggressive to get any movement at any speed. Had an 03 Road King that was dear to my heart but wiggled like a school girl at most any speed above the posted speed limit in a sweeper.
Originally Posted by Gwaxley
Ride a 2014 Limited
10,000 miles
Stock tires, stock shocks at this time. Ohlins and Michelins in the future.
Lowered one inch
Have found that I ride somewhat aggressive with the floorboards dragging a little most every ride. I'm not easy on the tires at all, maybe another 3-4k miles left and then some new commanders. Actually I noticed a very small swaying in November and ignored it, blaming the cooler temps and worn tires. But with your adamant determined thread, I decided to pushed it and the wobble or hard swaying is there and will get your attention for sure. But saying that you have to push the bike to (my) limit and I think the tires limit. Probable won't purposely push it that hard again.
I am a hardcore Harley fan, with a serious cool-aid habit, prolly bleed cool-aid lol, love this thing. In fact Andrews 57h cams are going in tomorrow with a quality tune/dyno shortly after. :-)
Originally Posted by Webo
We went out for a ride Sunday since the weather was nice and temps hit the low 70's here in North Texas. About 20 of us headed east for lunch and then some back road cruising after lunch. Put in about 200 miles and all was great but decided to hit the super slab to make better time back to Dallas. Four of us were running the normal 80mph when we hit this long 1/4 mile high speed sweeper with a little banking that connected two hwys. Feeling aggressive my brother and I hit the sweeper hard at about 75mph (posted speed is 60) planing to hold our line and accelerate out of the curve. About 3/4 of the way thru the sweeper I noticed my brothers bike beginning to wobble a bit as I was following him, and then felt mine wobble just a bit. Nothing bad or scary but it did cause us both to back off until we were thru the sweeper. I guess I'll do a little more research on the available stabilizers like the True Track and Progressives new unit. I know I tend to ride a little on the aggressive side for a bagger but I enjoy the twisties like most riders and want the bike to feel as stable as possible in all situations. I've never felt the wobble while cornering the usual back roads around here but those corners are not normally long fast sweepers where you would hold a constant 75+. And that seems to be the type of corner that brings the wobble out.
Originally Posted by TimLScheffer
I think Sunny nailed it. "The Front end gets light on the 14 frame.." Which would explain why when we are accelarating in a curve and there is a bump, the front end lifts, which for a second puts you in a rear wheel steer situation..letting off the throttle drops the front back down and you get a bounce wobble as it stabilizes... It's kinda scary the first time it happens.. That would explain also the sensation for me that it does not lay over as far in sweeps as my 07 did... The 07 was more front loaded so the front wheel dug more into the corner as I accelerated out of it... But the 14 lifts when I accelerate and does not dig..
I do get it... Let's hear from the peanut gallery about how I should and should not be riding my 900 lb Ultra Limited CVO... Some of you fellows here have never taken a 45 mph curve at 75 mph... If you steer around such curves turning the steering wheel / handle bars... Then you would have no Idea what I am talking about... I understand that... You would probably have no idea how a YZ250 handles while landing in a burm after being airborn... Se La Ve... I am an aggressive rider... I rode Bull's n Bareback in Highschooll... I I have burned the turns on the 3 Sisters (Orgasmic) ... The woobble happens when I have the bike layed down in a turn and there is an imperfection in the road... You can't telll me the 14 lays at the same angle as an 07 in a turn, if you have never scraped the boards in a turn... at this point you are sorta riding on the side of the tires... I did change from the stock tires because they were too hard to lay down into... Scared the **** out of me the way they slid around... I swicthed to MICHELIN® Commander® II's and I love the way they grip.... It made a thousand percent difference... When I am layed sideways in a turn and hit a bump... iThe 14 starts flopping like a flounder... My 07 did not do this... But both my 14's did / do... Mine is a Bagger... It may have something to do with the aerodynamics of the trunk as the folks posting no wobble issue I have noticed have SG's... I may try taking the box off and trying it. I understand some of you don't think I should be laying a Limited CVO into a turn... I get it... It's mine... I'll ride it how I want... You want to toodle around like an old man in a walker... have at it... I am looking for Ideas on what to do to make it handle better in turns? If you have some Ideas share them with us... If not then you can just tell us how stupid people are who ride their Hog's aggressively...
Originally Posted by Webo
Originally Posted by Lowcountry Joe View Post
Straight line speed has nothing to do with this discussion.
It's the long sweepers such as on the interstate or multi-lane primary roads where you enter them at 80 or above and maintain those speeds (or greater) through the duration of the curve. That's where it happens if it happens at all. The oscillations must have time to build, and that is exactly what happens in the very long sweepers. Quick twisties will not exhibit the same problem. You may feel a wiggly back end, but that's your fault for not managing available friction.
The larger cross-sectional area of the Rushmore front legs and the front clamping improvements should help to minimize the buildup and amplitude of the oscillations, but I am afraid not totally eliminate these oscillations depending upon the duration of the high-speed curve undertaken.
With the continued use of cheap air shocks and motor mounting, even on the Rushmores, a good set of high quality rear shocks and high quality motor to frame stabilizer, such as a True Track, would add even more oscillation dampening.
Originally Posted by TimLScheffer
Sunny's commets got me to thinking... The 14 is loaded lighter on the front than the previous frames because they extended the forks on the 14 ie made em longer which transfered more weight to the back... When you acellerate you take more weight off the front... The reason some people experience the wiggle and some dont is because not everybody guns it half way thru the turn to push into and accelerate out of the turn... When you do that on the 07 the front end digs into the corner... When you do it on the 14 the front end lifts up and transfers weight to the back tire creating a rear wheel steer... If you hit a bump in that curve while rear end loaded the bike rolls up and outside the curve... The rider lets off and the front wheel comes back down and bounces, digs, then bounces up loading the rear wheel again repeating the process until it stablizes because you let off the throttle... a person who did not accelerate but rather decelerated half way into the curve would experience the front end getting loaded and digging in therefor they would experience no lift bounce wobble... It makes sense to me now. So... if I got shocks that lowered the front it would shift weight forward.
I found another thread describing the problem I am experiencing exactly.. I found another thread describing the same problem I am having. Be aware that this problem exists... http://www.hdforums.com/forum/tourin...he-2014-s.html
Last edited by TimLScheffer; 08-30-2016 at 02:29 PM.
I remember reading about your accident Tim and praise God you are able to mount up again!!
I have experienced the rear end weaving many times on my 14 Limited. This bike handles like a pickup truck, an old pickup truck. I bought the Limited because my GF will go ride with me and do trips together. For 2 up touring and riding very conservatively, I think the bike is not bad, although the rear shocks are a disgrace. Working on the bike such as changing out the exhaust system, reminds me of working on an old farm implement. I have other motorcycles that I ride solo, mostly a new BMW R1200GS. Comparing a BMW to a Harley is like comparing the Chevy Tahoe from 15 years ago to a 2015 BMW X5, not even on the same planet, except the Harley cost more for much much less. Harley wants us to think the Rushmore bikes are so high tech and improved , in reality, they only put lipstick on a pig.
I knew what I was getting when I bought it, still happy I did because it is the third horse in the string and I can afford to pay to play. So you get what you pay TOO MUCH for, American style, cool looks, fun motor, and **** poor handling. Anyone who thinks they handle well hasn't ridden a bike that does. A good set of shocks and front end work will help, but shocks won't make a 1995 Chevy Tahoe handle well either.
Last edited by TexasRoper; 01-18-2015 at 08:03 AM.
I remember reading about your accident Tim and praise God you are able to mount up again!!
I have experienced the rear end weaving many times on my 14 Limited. This bike handles like a pickup truck, an old pickup truck. I bought the Limited because my GF will go ride with me and do trips together. For 2 up touring and riding very conservatively, I think the bike is not bad, although the rear shocks are a disgrace. Working on the bike such as changing out the exhaust system, reminds me of working on an old farm implement. I have other motorcycles that I ride solo, mostly a new BMW R1200GS. Comparing a BMW to a Harley is like comparing the Chevy Tahoe from 15 years ago to a 2015 BMW X5, not even on the same planet, except the Harley cost more for much much less. Harley wants us to think the Rushmore bikes are so high tech and improved , in reality, they only put lipstick on a pig.
I knew what I was getting when I bought it, still happy I did because it is the third horse in the string and I can afford to pay to play. So you get what you pay TOO MUCH for, American style, cool looks, fun motor, and **** poor handling. Anyone who thinks they handle well hasn't ridden a bike that does. A good set of shocks and front end work will help, but shocks won't make a 1995 Chevy Tahoe handle well either.
2015 Limited is a great bike. It is not a sport bike nor does it handle like one. I believe it is not made for that type of riding you are pushing it to perform at. There are bikes that fit everyone's style of riding. For a touring guy this is the Ultimate touring bike.
I remember reading about your accident Tim and praise God you are able to mount up again!!
I have experienced the rear end weaving many times on my 14 Limited. This bike handles like a pickup truck, an old pickup truck. I bought the Limited because my GF will go ride with me and do trips together. For 2 up touring and riding very conservatively, I think the bike is not bad, although the rear shocks are a disgrace. Working on the bike such as changing out the exhaust system, reminds me of working on an old farm implement. I have other motorcycles that I ride solo, mostly a new BMW R1200GS. Comparing a BMW to a Harley is like comparing the Chevy Tahoe from 15 years ago to a 2015 BMW X5, not even on the same planet, except the Harley cost more for much much less. Harley wants us to think the Rushmore bikes are so high tech and improved , in reality, they only put lipstick on a pig.
I knew what I was getting when I bought it, still happy I did because it is the third horse in the string and I can afford to pay to play. So you get what you pay TOO MUCH for, American style, cool looks, fun motor, and **** poor handling. Anyone who thinks they handle well hasn't ridden a bike that does. A good set of shocks and front end work will help, but shocks won't make a 1995 Chevy Tahoe handle well either.
I remember reading about your accident Tim and praise God you are able to mount up again!!
I have experienced the rear end weaving many times on my 14 Limited. This bike handles like a pickup truck, an old pickup truck. I bought the Limited because my GF will go ride with me and do trips together. For 2 up touring and riding very conservatively, I think the bike is not bad, although the rear shocks are a disgrace. Working on the bike such as changing out the exhaust system, reminds me of working on an old farm implement. I have other motorcycles that I ride solo, mostly a new BMW R1200GS. Comparing a BMW to a Harley is like comparing the Chevy Tahoe from 15 years ago to a 2015 BMW X5, not even on the same planet, except the Harley cost more for much much less. Harley wants us to think the Rushmore bikes are so high tech and improved , in reality, they only put lipstick on a pig.
I knew what I was getting when I bought it, still happy I did because it is the third horse in the string and I can afford to pay to play. So you get what you pay TOO MUCH for, American style, cool looks, fun motor, and **** poor handling. Anyone who thinks they handle well hasn't ridden a bike that does. A good set of shocks and front end work will help, but shocks won't make a 1995 Chevy Tahoe handle well either.
While I don't really doubt that someone could induce a wobble if he really tried, you lost me when you said the '07 had a greater lean angle. Just not buying it. I had an '07, an '11, and now a '14, and they all lean the same. And yes, I've taken all 3 to the limit.
WOW, I guess I'm just a pickup guy then. I don't own a sports car and have no interest in driving one. BMW r1200s...what's that?? Dunn'o. Who cares? Someone/somewhere. Do I care? No. Am I narrow minded? Ya. Does a BMW r1200s have any issues? I couldn't tell'ya.
Hard core Chevy guys don't acknowledge a Ford or MoPar... EVEN with their serious shortcomings...That probably describes me (though I prefer MoPar)
I'm a Harley guy. I Ride'm, like'm don't even give a **** about BMW/Honda/Ducati or even a Vespa. Narrow minded and opinionated...
Harley's are great bikes, even if YOU don't like them.
Now to the OP. NO...I have NEVER had a headshake on the 2014 FLHTK. SOLID as a ROCK. Best HARLEY I've owned (Sorry, no BMW's in the stable, can't compare).
The 2005 FLRHCI could really shake when pressed though. Big reason why I traded up.
On my commute home from work, there is a nice sweeper curve on the turnpike (toll road) that I've taken at 115 mph a couple of times on my '14 Road King. No wobble of any kind. Just steady and smooth all the way thru it. It even has a bit of an incline to it. Bike is solid as a rock.
I remember reading about your accident Tim and praise God you are able to mount up again!!
I have experienced the rear end weaving many times on my 14 Limited. This bike handles like a pickup truck, an old pickup truck. I bought the Limited because my GF will go ride with me and do trips together. For 2 up touring and riding very conservatively, I think the bike is not bad, although the rear shocks are a disgrace. Working on the bike such as changing out the exhaust system, reminds me of working on an old farm implement. I have other motorcycles that I ride solo, mostly a new BMW R1200GS. Comparing a BMW to a Harley is like comparing the Chevy Tahoe from 15 years ago to a 2015 BMW X5, not even on the same planet, except the Harley cost more for much much less. Harley wants us to think the Rushmore bikes are so high tech and improved , in reality, they only put lipstick on a pig.
I knew what I was getting when I bought it, still happy I did because it is the third horse in the string and I can afford to pay to play. So you get what you pay TOO MUCH for, American style, cool looks, fun motor, and **** poor handling. Anyone who thinks they handle well hasn't ridden a bike that does. A good set of shocks and front end work will help, but shocks won't make a 1995 Chevy Tahoe handle well either.
Lost me after the first line. You should have stopped there because you at least sounded like you knew what you were talking about.
01-18-2015, 07:34 AM
Sweeper Curve Wobble on the 14, Have you experienced it?
Wow, that's about all I can say I guess.
