V&H FP3 and going beyond "stage 1"
#1
V&H FP3 and going beyond "stage 1"
now that the FP3 tuner has been out for a few years, what have people done with it?
I know this is not set-up to account for big bores and cam upgrades out of the box, but also understand the tuner is more than capable with all it's block adjustment/customization options.
just started a thread on the break-down of the different performance stage upgrades, but do not want to have to get a a different tuner...
just curious who's done further motor work and utilized the FP3 to manipulate the ECU for it's new upgrades, etc. and how.
I know this is not set-up to account for big bores and cam upgrades out of the box, but also understand the tuner is more than capable with all it's block adjustment/customization options.
just started a thread on the break-down of the different performance stage upgrades, but do not want to have to get a a different tuner...
just curious who's done further motor work and utilized the FP3 to manipulate the ECU for it's new upgrades, etc. and how.
Last edited by adamsrotors; 06-13-2016 at 07:01 PM.
Top Answer
06-14-2016, 06:23 PM
as per Trask, S&S techs' and a few other local performance shops. The FP3 will only adjust fuel and cants compensate for timing. Yes there is a drop down for a cam selection, it still wont adjust timing just the fuel. a real tuner like the TTS, power vision, or SE race tuner will be needed to fully tune for a cam/heads/big bore kits. hope this helps. I'm looking at the FM 107" kit with heads probably use a TTS tuner for it.
I want to clarify something with all the read ers of this thread. The FP3, PV and SE all control the same core tables for tuning. Such as but not limited to, VE tables, AFR table, Spark tables, PE tables, rev limit, idle rpm and more. The tuner is the tool one uses dial in and "tune" the bike. It is a common misconception that one device performs better than the other, when in fact it is the one who is tuning it that makes the difference. Whether it be a dyno operator, tuning specialist or kid next door, the FP3 is as flexible and powerful as you want it to be or as simple. Most dyno operators favor the use of other brand's devices because they are accustomed to it's software and have tools that integrate with their dyno. However, not everyone wants to, or needs to, dyno there bike to accomplish tuning it to their liking. BTW, you can still dyno with a FP3, the tables are still in the same native tuning format.
The FP3 has a much simpler GUI that the majority of people can pick up, and tune their bike in without the use of any other equipment, (with the exception of a smartphone of course). We have a database of over 10,000 maps ranging from completely bone stock to intake, exhaust and more. We have 5 Eddy Current dynos that we use to create maps for all the specific setups and calibrations. On top of the dyno testing, we also do a specific street test to ensure optimal ride-ability and economy. Suffice to say, that the FP3 is NOT a simple Stage 1 replacement device. But a device that can grow with your bike's build.
In the next update we will be offering a new feature for you to select your camshaft from a list of over 50+ aftermarket cams. This will make the adjustments for your map for IVO and IVC. Then run the AutoTune to smooth the rest of the map over. You can change displacement, injector flow rating and more for the more intense setups.
Another feature that is commonly overlooked, (and the OP has direct experience with as well) is our Customer Service area. We can make specific adjustments to your map and send it right back to your phone, all remotely. One such example is decel popping. Some setups have more than others and need an extra adjustment. All the user has to do is upload their map via the customer support tab, send us their VIN and we can make the adjustments if the user is not comfortable or does not know what to change. All the user will have to do is click "Download and Flash" and it will flash that map and its changes directly into the bike. So if there is something within question or needs adjustment, we can help you out, anywhere.
The FP3 is constantly evolving. There are even more features in the pipeline that further expand the FP3's tuning arsenal as well as satisfy user requests. All are free OTA (Over the Air) updates that automatically prompt you when you connect to your FP3.
Hope this helps any readers with any questions or doubts about the FP3. If anyone has any other questions, please feel free to send us an email through the application or customer service areas.
Air/Fuel:
front/rear VE, : a percentage indicating how completely the cylinder is filling
with air.
AFR, : the desired or “target” air/fuel ratio. The ECU uses this number to
calculate how much fuel to spray.
throttle progressivity (primary and secondary): Percentage indicating how
far the throttle blade should open. Compares the amount the twist grip is
rotated and how fast the engine is running.
Throttle table switchover gear: Two tables are available so one can be more
aggressive than the other. This value indicates when to switch from the
primary to the secondary table.
Acceleration, : amount of extra fuel to add when the engine is accelerating
Deceleration, : amount of fuel to remove when decelerating
F/R charge dilution, : Amount of exhaust gases remaining in the cylinder
after the exhaust valve is closed. The computer only uses this table when
manifold pressure is less than 60 kPa.
Closed loop range, :within this range, the ECU will use O2 sensor feedback to
adjust the fuel delivery
closed loop activation temp,: minimum temperature the engine must attain
before the ECU goes into closed loop (in “closed loop”, the Oxygen sensor is
used to trim the amount of fuel sprayed into the engine).
closed loop deactivation temp,: If the engine temperature drops below this
temperature, the ECU will go from closed loop to open loop mode (in “open
loop”, the ECU does not use the Oxygen sensor to trim fuel delivery)
Map load normalization,: table to compensate MAP readings for intake flow
restrictions. You should not need to adjust this table.
intake valve opening/closing angles,: indicate to the ECU when to read the
MAP sensor. This number is converted to a crankshaft sensor tooth position.
Adaptive control min temp: Minimum temperature where the ECU will start
to save the O2 sensor trim values (“learning”)
Spark:
F/R spark,: Spark timing table. Degrees of spark advance based on engine
load (MAP) and engine speed (RPM).
spark vs. engine temp,: Table to adjust the base spark timing for different
engine temperatures.
spark vs. air temp, Table to adjust spark timing for air temperature. Gives
you the ability to pull timing out at high load with high air temperature.
spark vs. head temp,: Table to adjust spark timing for head temperature.
Gives you the ability to pull timing out at high load with high head
temperatures.
adaptive knock retard, Maximum amount of knock retard which can be
learned. Based on engine load and engine rpm.
max knock retard, Maximum amount of retard which can be applied.
knock control activation temp, Minimum temperature where knock control
will start working.
knock control deactivation temp, If the engine temperature drops below this
level, the ECU will turn off knock control.
idle spark gain, The ECU will adjust the spark timing when the engine is
idling to help control the idle speed. This number affects how aggressive the
function is. You probably don’t need to adjust this.
idle spark max, Maximum amount the spark timing will be adjusted to
smooth idle rpm.
F/R closed throttle spark, Spark timing when the throttle is closed.
Closed throttle spark max tps. Maximum TPS setting where the Closed
Throttle Spark table is used. Above this temperature, the normal spark
timing tables are used.
Performance mode:
PE afr,: Performance Enrichment mode is a special “engine preservation”
mode designed to help keep the motor from being destroyed. After a period
of time at wide-open- throttle, the engine will start to add fuel and reduce
spark timing. This table indicates the desired AFR vs time. The longer the
engine is in this mode, the AFR should slowly decrease.
PE spark, : Spark timing while in PE mode.
PE disable rpm, :Once the engine is operating in PE mode, the RPM must drop
below this level before it reverts back to normal mode.
PE enable RPM,: Engine rpm must be above this level before entering PE
mode.
PE disable TPS, Once the engine is operating in PE mode, the TPS must drop
below this level before it reverts back to normal mode.
PE enable TPS, : The throttle position must be above this level to enter PE
mode.
Startup/Idle:
cranking fuel, Amount of fuel sprayed into the engine when the cranking.
Expressed as milliseconds. Engine displacement changes may require
changes to this table.
warmup enrichment, When the engine is warming up, it requires more fuel
than when it is fully warm. This table specifies the amount of enrichment.
iac crank steps vs. temp, When cranking, there is a minimum amount of air
required to get the engine to start. This air is controlled by the IAC motor
position. When the engine is cold, more air is required. This table allows you
to adjust this relationship.
iac crank to run,
iac warmup, Table indicating the initial IAC position vs. engine temperature.
The closer these numbers are to the actual IAC position, the smoother the
initial idle will be. Displacement changes may require adjustments to this
table.
idle rpm. Desired idle speed at various engine temperatures. Warning: oil
pressure drops with engine rpm and HD warns that 900 rpm is the minimum
speed to have adequate oil pressure.
Active exhaust
First gear: The HD exhaust system includes a restriction valve on
international bikes. This valve can open and close to help meet local noise
regulations. One table per gear. The bike must be moving for the ECU to
know which gear it is in; results with the bike stopped can vary. 100 is full
open, 0 is full closed.
Second gear: table for second gear. 100 is full open, 0 is full closed.
Third gear: table for third gear. 100 is full open, 0 is full closed.
Fourth gear: table for fourth and fifth gear. 100 is full open, 0 is full closed.
General:
Rev limit, maximum engine speed allowed.
injector size, Rated size of the fuel injector.
MPG adjustment, Adjusts the MPG reading on the bike. Larger numbers show
higher MPG.
engine displacement, Engine size.
Gear ratios (first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth): Gear ratio for each gear.
The ECU uses this info to know which gear it is in.
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If that's the case (that you read them daily), you should know the answer to your question. Just sayin'...
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talkingrock (06-14-2016)
#9
#10
as per Trask, S&S techs' and a few other local performance shops. The FP3 will only adjust fuel and cants compensate for timing. Yes there is a drop down for a cam selection, it still wont adjust timing just the fuel. a real tuner like the TTS, power vision, or SE race tuner will be needed to fully tune for a cam/heads/big bore kits. hope this helps. I'm looking at the FM 107" kit with heads probably use a TTS tuner for it.