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Oil Level vs Oil Consumption

 
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  #11  
Old 10-15-2017, 04:51 PM
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Is it just me, or does anybody else see the contradictions in the manual?
Says oil level can not be checked accurately cold. Then the next paragraphs it describes how to check it cold!
 
  #12  
Old 10-16-2017, 03:42 AM
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There are a many contradictions and not well documented instructions in a lot of manuals, (for non mechanics), .... Checking engine engine oil on a Harley seems to be one of them ....

The quote , "can not be checked accurately cold" , (to me), means ....
Before first start, (bike is cold), and you want to check that bike has adequate oil ... If it shows half way between add and full , your good to go,, but it is not the most accurate ....
To check for the "most accurate measurement",,,, bike has to be at hot operating temp ,,,, From this measurement , (and there are personal preferences), add oil to the full mark if required ....
 
  #13  
Old 10-16-2017, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Ddieselsmoke
Now tell me more about this harbour freight water oil separator idea. I like it.
 
  #14  
Old 10-19-2017, 10:35 PM
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I always thought that it must be me only that’s missing how a dry sump works. Everybody says “run level low, that’ll solve blowby”.
I admit I tried it drastically low with my last heavily modded bike. Didn’t do bugger all. To me the air cleaner should be re-designed to flow enough for engine mods, yet not drip oil all over our saddlebags and cam cover etc. All my friends, even me has not had any luck keeping the bike clean with a nonstock cleaner.
And no .... they too refuse to put a stupid catch can on a 30k bike.
 
  #15  
Old 10-20-2017, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DeneFXDWG
I always thought that it must be me only that’s missing how a dry sump works. Everybody says “run level low, that’ll solve blowby”.
I admit I tried it drastically low with my last heavily modded bike. Didn’t do bugger all. To me the air cleaner should be re-designed to flow enough for engine mods, yet not drip oil all over our saddlebags and cam cover etc. All my friends, even me has not had any luck keeping the bike clean with a nonstock cleaner.
And no .... they too refuse to put a stupid catch can on a 30k bike.
Edit, I meant I refuse to put a catch can on a 30k .
 
  #16  
Old 10-20-2017, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cdn_eh
I have a 2017 Heritage (103 ci) with just over 5k miles on it and it uses about 1 quart of oil (HD SYN3) about every 2,000 miles. The spark plugs look fine but there is oil dripping from the breather hose into the air intake. The dealer suggested that I run with the oil level about half way between FULL and FULL HOT when the oil is hot. I tried that and it didn't make any difference.

I am a retired aircraft mechanic but I started my career on automobiles when most Chevs had 283's and Ford's had 289's. I switched over to aviation and worked on everything from Cessna 150's to B727's including a few airplanes that had air cooled engines with dry sumps such as P&W 985, 1340, and 1830.

I have read a few posts on this site from people stating that running with reduced oil level solved their oil consumption problems and eliminated the oil in the breather hose but I am puzzled about how this can be possible in this dry sump engine.

Can someone give me a technical explanation?
Crankcases can only contain a given volume of air and its attendant pressure. Once that pressure is exceeded, you've got "blowby".

...Which is hot oil in the crankcase that is easily displaced by the increased pressure and because it has a perfect path out of the crankcase, via the breather bolts and channels that route into your intake.

Reducing the oil level to the "Halfway" mark is less of a preventive measure and more of a way to reduce the amount of Blowby that may or may not be a superficial problem aka a mess dripping from the air cleaner. The oil level at the halfway mark is perfectly harmless IMO.

I have heard dealers say that 1 quart per 1k miles is within a normal range of oil consumption... Personally I disagree with this but the fact is that for whatever reason, you likely have a blow by issue that you aren't comfortable with.

The excessive oil blowby can be managed by routing it externally via a hose and catch can system.

http://www.dkcustomproducts.com/all-...ngines-c76.htm

Feel free to give me a call or email to go over the options we have for you on the External Breather Systems.

Dwayne
 
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  #17  
Old 10-20-2017, 09:57 PM
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once again, hd r&d does not support the drop level tale. a quick consult with them will provide proof.
the issue with dinner plate and sewer line size pistons and jugs lend themselves to sealing issues especially so with the v engines, issue with inline multiples are way less.
with the v twin as you say the volume is constantly changing so there is an issue with reduced volume and high c/c oil, not the bag.
at high rpms, the c/c pressure tends to want to equalize and throw in that at high rpms, hd engines tend to pool oil in the crankcase, once again the bag is not the issue, it is only a place to store oil.
for the oil to flow in the engine, a diff'l pressure is needed to send the oil to the scavenge trap. as rpm go up this goes down plus more oil is in suspension.
as c/c pressure builds, the rings start to not seal and add in wear, only spells blow-by.
you can vent to atmosphere but it does not address the issue, a redesign of the system is needed because of the stock restriction is still there.
in times past, a timed breather valve was use, now it is umbrella valves. if the engine has wear and blow-by exceeds capacity, then oil will be lifted out the engine since the separator chamber is over-whelmed and out goes the oil through the umbrella valves.
 
  #18  
Old 12-25-2018, 10:33 AM
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My 3 month old 107 Heritage is fixing to go to the dealer for for the 3rd time for oil consumption. Took it in first month of ownership twice and nothing was done but sensor pulled and checked for sumping. All they did is topped it off And I was told is to break it in, do the 1k. Well, 500 miles later there’s nothing registering on my dipstick once again. 1,500 miles and have lost a total of 3 qts of engine oil. On cold start up it smokes. Blip the throttle and turns into mosquito fogger until it burns all the oil that’s found its way into the combustion chamber. Seems like it’s mainly the rear cylinder. I’m assuming it’s coming from the top end of the engine via a guide or valve seal. I’ve been monitoring my oil levels and seem to lose a “dot” on the dipstick per 50miles which is why it’s harder to see it smoking while riding. Also it will be more on decel vs acceleration in my case since it’s when the engine is creating more vacuume. I will be dropping her back off tomorrow. Wish me luck and I’ll keep y’all updated!
 
  #19  
Old 12-26-2018, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GusTrevino
My 3 month old 107 Heritage is fixing to go to the dealer for for the 3rd time for oil consumption. Took it in first month of ownership twice and nothing was done but sensor pulled and checked for sumping. All they did is topped it off And I was told is to break it in, do the 1k. Well, 500 miles later there’s nothing registering on my dipstick once again.
Drive it until the engine seizes and then call the dealer to come pick it up...you did what they recommended...you "broke" it in...
 
  #20  
Old 12-26-2018, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by HDSlimJim
Drive it until the engine seizes and then call the dealer to come pick it up...you did what they recommended...you "broke" it in...
Just dropped her off this morning. If I get any more crap about it that’s what I’m gonna do. Since it would be “normal” I’ll tell them not to add any more oil to it and I’m just gonna keep on riding it till my next scheduled service. It’s pretty damn obvious I’m burning it. I started her up last night and completely fogged out my garage. Not sure how much more obvious it has to get. I’m almost 100% certain it’s the guides or valve seals. Improper installation or just defective. Out of 20 vehicles I’ve owned (5 of them motorcycles) I’ve never had this problem. I understand stuff happens but don’t d*ck me around. There was a problem the first time I took it in and now it’s my third time. Damn thing is literally brand new and burns more oil than my 2 stroke weed eater. At this rate I pretty much have to add a qt of oil every other gas fill up 😂
 

Last edited by GusTrevino; 12-26-2018 at 10:15 AM.


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