Oil Basics, Part 2
#11
12-28-2005, 08:16 PM
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RE: Oil Basics, Part 2
hi am a bit of a dummy on harleys at the moment do you have ta use different oils in primary ,and trans ,engine or using auto oil can same be used in all areas clueless????????
#12
12-29-2005, 07:24 PM
RE: Oil Basics, Part 2
ORIGINAL: Wolfie
Sorry, somtimes I just get so frustrated with all the partial information and just plain wrong information that's out there I can't contain myself. Yes, it does have to do with information that really isn't proprietary but might be considered somehow by the lawyers as an offical company position and require legal review. You just have to love big corporations. Anyway, I'm not ready to bet my pension on their perception. But even if all the info was available it still wouldn't provide a great basis for decision making. For example, with the high VI of PAO synthetics it's possible to make 5W-20, 10W-30 and 20W-50 oils without using VI Improvers. Wider cross grades still require them. VI improvers are a necessary evil, they are very high molecular weight additives that have poor thermal stability and shear rapidly in service, particularly in transmissions. As far as I know only one manufacturer makes a non-VI improved 20W-50 but most use VI improvers but of course this is not indicated on the bottle and you need shear data (not readily available) to determine if an oil does or does not contain this type of additive. Since most people don't understand what VI improvers do, how they do it, and what are the pros and cons (mostly cons) of adding a very high molecular weight polymer to an engine oil are it wouldn't mean much to most people. I know this isn't an answer you want to hear but your best bet is to pick a company with good historic track record that you trust and stick with them. One of the major additive companies, Lubrizol, (no I don't work for Lubrizol), used to have a very good additive chemistry primer on their web page, www.lubrizol.com. You might want to check it our if you want to learn more about additive chemistry in general.
Sorry, somtimes I just get so frustrated with all the partial information and just plain wrong information that's out there I can't contain myself. Yes, it does have to do with information that really isn't proprietary but might be considered somehow by the lawyers as an offical company position and require legal review. You just have to love big corporations. Anyway, I'm not ready to bet my pension on their perception. But even if all the info was available it still wouldn't provide a great basis for decision making. For example, with the high VI of PAO synthetics it's possible to make 5W-20, 10W-30 and 20W-50 oils without using VI Improvers. Wider cross grades still require them. VI improvers are a necessary evil, they are very high molecular weight additives that have poor thermal stability and shear rapidly in service, particularly in transmissions. As far as I know only one manufacturer makes a non-VI improved 20W-50 but most use VI improvers but of course this is not indicated on the bottle and you need shear data (not readily available) to determine if an oil does or does not contain this type of additive. Since most people don't understand what VI improvers do, how they do it, and what are the pros and cons (mostly cons) of adding a very high molecular weight polymer to an engine oil are it wouldn't mean much to most people. I know this isn't an answer you want to hear but your best bet is to pick a company with good historic track record that you trust and stick with them. One of the major additive companies, Lubrizol, (no I don't work for Lubrizol), used to have a very good additive chemistry primer on their web page, www.lubrizol.com. You might want to check it our if you want to learn more about additive chemistry in general.
#13
07-20-2006, 11:59 AM
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RE: Oil Basics, Part 2
In part 1 you broke down the oils into 5 different grades 1-5. Could you post what available oils are in what grades? i.e. Castrol Syn grade X. An assumption on my part (and I know all about assumptions) is the higher the grade of oil the better or wear resistant. True? Thanks,
#14
07-22-2006, 02:08 AM
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RE: Oil Basics, Part 2
ORIGINAL: Scottys RoadGilde
In part 1 you broke down the oils into 5 different grades 1-5. Could you post what available oils are in what grades? i.e. Castrol Syn grade X. An assumption on my part (and I know all about assumptions) is the higher the grade of oil the better or wear resistant. True? Thanks,
In part 1 you broke down the oils into 5 different grades 1-5. Could you post what available oils are in what grades? i.e. Castrol Syn grade X. An assumption on my part (and I know all about assumptions) is the higher the grade of oil the better or wear resistant. True? Thanks,
You can check out the BITOG site and probably find what you're looking for:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi
#15
07-22-2006, 02:06 PM
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RE: Oil Basics, Part 2
All in all this has proven and interesting read. I was a mechanic for over 20 years in both motorcycle and auto industries, which frankly means nada for this conversation, other than I can disassemble and reassemble bikes and cars. I've always used Mobil 1 in all my cars and used Castrol GTX or Pennzoil (regular dino oils) in my bikes.
Now, years later, I still use Mobil 1 in my cages and I now have my first Harley. It's a '95 Ultra with 44k on the clock, BUT it now has about 1,500 on a new, reman HD engine (dealer installed). It had a oil change by the dealer at about 500 miles. I feel it is time to change it again (with no real supportable reason) and then I am planning on going to a 4k - 5k schedule.
So after reading all this (and my head hurts!), all I would like to know, is this:
1 - Any reason I should not use Mobil 1 in the Harley?
2 - What grade? (I live in Austin, TX. summer = 75 - 105 and winter = 35 - 50. I ride almost daily for transportation and pleasure)
3 - What is meant by "all 3 holes"? (forgive my ignorance, but I only see engine/trans and primary drive as requiring service)
BTW - $9 a qt for HD Syn and $8 for Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 have me wondering, "is it worth it?" Why not Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50 for about $5?
Now, years later, I still use Mobil 1 in my cages and I now have my first Harley. It's a '95 Ultra with 44k on the clock, BUT it now has about 1,500 on a new, reman HD engine (dealer installed). It had a oil change by the dealer at about 500 miles. I feel it is time to change it again (with no real supportable reason) and then I am planning on going to a 4k - 5k schedule.
So after reading all this (and my head hurts!), all I would like to know, is this:
1 - Any reason I should not use Mobil 1 in the Harley?
2 - What grade? (I live in Austin, TX. summer = 75 - 105 and winter = 35 - 50. I ride almost daily for transportation and pleasure)
3 - What is meant by "all 3 holes"? (forgive my ignorance, but I only see engine/trans and primary drive as requiring service)
BTW - $9 a qt for HD Syn and $8 for Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 have me wondering, "is it worth it?" Why not Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50 for about $5?
#16
07-22-2006, 04:22 PM
RE: Oil Basics, Part 2
As you can see, oil threads get beat to death on this board. All a lot of great information but it finally boils down to trying a product and see how you like it.
To answer your questions --
1 - Any reason I should not use Mobil 1 in the Harley?
A lot of people in the news group do use Mobil1 V-twin. Others prefer Amsol, Redline, and based on the data in the oil poll, even HD Syn3.
See the oil poll results here https://www.hdforums.com/m_90612/tm.htm
2 - What grade? (I live in Austin, TX. summer = 75 - 105 and winter = 35 - 50. I ride almost daily for transportation and pleasure)
Straight out of the HD manual for my 03 EG -- 10W40 below 40F, 20W50 above 40 F
3 - What is meant by "all 3 holes"? (forgive my ignorance, but I only see engine/trans and primary drive as requiring service)
You've got it....one hole is engine, one hole is transmission and the third is primary. Many on this board like Mobil 1 V-twin for engine, Redline MTL for primary and Redline Shockproof Heavy for transmission. I have difficulty getting Redline shipped to me so I switched to Amsoil 20W50 in all three holes only because I have a source nearby. There is a marked difference over HD Syn3. Will probably try Amsoil 75W90 in transmission at the next service to see if it helps the "clunk" when shifting.
Hope this helps....
To answer your questions --
1 - Any reason I should not use Mobil 1 in the Harley?
A lot of people in the news group do use Mobil1 V-twin. Others prefer Amsol, Redline, and based on the data in the oil poll, even HD Syn3.
See the oil poll results here https://www.hdforums.com/m_90612/tm.htm
2 - What grade? (I live in Austin, TX. summer = 75 - 105 and winter = 35 - 50. I ride almost daily for transportation and pleasure)
Straight out of the HD manual for my 03 EG -- 10W40 below 40F, 20W50 above 40 F
3 - What is meant by "all 3 holes"? (forgive my ignorance, but I only see engine/trans and primary drive as requiring service)
You've got it....one hole is engine, one hole is transmission and the third is primary. Many on this board like Mobil 1 V-twin for engine, Redline MTL for primary and Redline Shockproof Heavy for transmission. I have difficulty getting Redline shipped to me so I switched to Amsoil 20W50 in all three holes only because I have a source nearby. There is a marked difference over HD Syn3. Will probably try Amsoil 75W90 in transmission at the next service to see if it helps the "clunk" when shifting.
Hope this helps....
#17
07-22-2006, 06:53 PM
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RE: Oil Basics, Part 2
ORIGINAL: 4x4Given
BTW - $9 a qt for HD Syn and $8 for Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 have me wondering, "is it worth it?" Why not Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50 for about $5?
BTW - $9 a qt for HD Syn and $8 for Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 have me wondering, "is it worth it?" Why not Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50 for about $5?
FWIW, I also run Castrol Syntec car oil in the bike, too. And when I'm feelin' really cheap, the ol' Evo gets a shot of Havoline 20w-50.
#18
10-26-2006, 09:03 PM
RE: Oil Basics, Part 2
The ole oil topic. How I luv it! frequency is the key to longivity as you CAN'T change the oil in a motorcycle too much! There isn't anything better then Amsoil.
#19
10-26-2008, 01:40 AM
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For our purposes, forget Group I oils. You ain't gonna run into them in the muttersickle world. For all I know, they ain't even made any more. Group II oils are the normal non-synthetic stuff on the shelves at any parts store, wally-World, etc. Group III are classified as synthetics - Castrol Syntec falls here, and quite a few others. Group IV are PAO synthetics - Mobil 1 is in this group. Group V are ester synthetics. I don't know who of the better known companies makes any of this stuff.
You can check out the BITOG site and probably find what you're looking for:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi
You can check out the BITOG site and probably find what you're looking for:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi
#20
02-02-2009, 08:23 AM
I agree with the synthetic guys. I would run one of the major three motorcycle oils in my bike. That is HD SYN3, AMPSOIIL, and REDLINE. You can use all three of these in all three holes, so, you can buy the gallon jug, and nothing else, except oil filter.
I'll put it to you like this. Corvette, Porsche, and the Viper ALL come with synthetic from the factory. Infact, they all use Mobile 1. I am not a chemist, but people smarter than m,e use this stuff so...
I'll put it to you like this. Corvette, Porsche, and the Viper ALL come with synthetic from the factory. Infact, they all use Mobile 1. I am not a chemist, but people smarter than m,e use this stuff so...