Not all 114's are the same. Not all 107's are the same and neither are all 117s.

A lot depends on the cam, the compression, the throttle body, and the exhaust.

An example, would be HD's 117 kit for the 110 motor. most are high teens or low 120 hp and under 130 torque. The 110 I built to 117 is 138.5 HP and 140 torque. Its also got a very flat torque curve. No HD kit can hang with the 117 I built. But I am running 11.4 compression with custom built pistons, head work, hpi throttle body and so on.

Its about having lots of torque no mater where I am in the RPM range for me, makes it a much easier bike to ride.

 

That is a nice relatively flat torque curve there.
Not sure i;d want to take an engine with nearly one litre cylinders up to 6500 revs though. 100 revolutions a second is (for my thinking) too much for that size pot.

But, yeah, I can see the point now, thanks.

Out of interest - do you think a stock HD engine would be noticeably better but for the epa **** you guys have to have? I'd say "yes", just changing airflow in and out improves them a LOT.

 

Notice, my Dyno pull stops at 5900, nothing to be gained above that with my build.

Yes, a stock engine would be noticably better with out the EPA crap and tune.
My 2018, with just a head pipe, mufflers and a good tune gained a good amount. Change is only tune and no cat.

 

That IS a noticeable change. Damn, your EPA really crippled these motorcycles.

The oddity is that a better running engine is usually also a cleaner running engine; even if not directly cleaner then cleaner by being more fuel efficient.

 

I'm old (will me turning 72) and by the way, I'm not grumpy because I'm very happy to have made it this far with the icing on the cake, still being able to ride. I still enjoy torque a great deal. Not interested in Japanese, British or German torque. The 107 did offer a nice torque feel but I wanted to bump it up so I did a Stage 3. I also enjoy still having a warranty and I know I did sacrifice some torque to keep it. Not once in making any of the decisions about buying or modifying my the bike did I think about my dick. Perhaps you're old and grumpy and have a dick fetish. Just saying.

 

It depends... does being on a torqued up Harley make you feel more of a man... are the Jappy bike riders or the PowerRangers less male (female riders accepted and ignored here, sorry)

If the answer, be honest with yourself, is "no" then the power was your aim.

if the answer is "yes" then it's still "DickSubstitute", like some dude getting a mid-life crisis and buying a Ferrari - "compensating", it's called.

But yeah, it doesn't apply to every single person who mods-up his ride, just some of them. (And, I'll be honest myself here, most of them actually bought the Harley 'cos it made them feel mean and manly, not for the ride).

Ride on, mate, have a good ride...

 

I don't remember the total $$, I had it all done before the bike was delivered and other work was included as well. All parts and labor were discounted, bottom line somewhere around 15% off catalog price.

The first thing I'll say is if you don't care about the warranty, screw the stage kits, aftermarket parts and tuner are the way to go to build real performance that can also be extremely reliable. Since I wanted to keep the warranty I went with stock harley stuff on the 18 CVO. The engine on the 16 was stock harley, but the pipe and tuner are aftermarket.

The main reason I didn't want to stay stock on the 18 CVO is my 16 had the 120 ST twin cam - I was worried I would be underwhelmed enough that it would annoy me every time I hopped on the CVO. At the end of the day the 120 ST twin cam has more torque than the 117 M8 Stage 3. It's not a night and day difference, but it is noticeable. The 117 Stage 3 does have "enough" torque to keep me happy though. I've also ridden a stock 117 CVO and am glad I went stage 3, the difference between stock 117 CVO and the 120 ST twin cam is significant enough that I wouldn't have been happy with a 117 CVO in stock form.

I'll also add that the torque "feels" different between the 16 and 18. I'd compare the 16 twin cam to a late 60s muscle car kind of feel. It is very driveable and has no issues around town at all, but it is a "raw" type of power. The 18 M8 is more refined. It's kind of like a Cadillac V series - the power is there but it is very smooth and refined.

 

i just started on my 2018 cvo rg ..ported heads ,64tb,117hc. pistons,tman 226 cam.fullsac ex 2.25 cors..i had the crank ck for runout 7 thousands...my s&s oil pump camplate..not to go over 4 thousands...harley crank sucks...so after the shop cost me $700...to ck it ,ill hold on to my parts , order new crank and send it to dark horse.... for now ill keep it stock