Greetings Folks!

New member to the forum here (first post), and I'm hoping to get some guidance from others on a future build. I'd really like to put together a project Bobber over this next year or two, with some help from my eldest son (age 34) - something we can work on together, just for fun, and I'd definitely like to focus on a shovelhead for power. I owned a '67 once in another custom that I built back in '74, and there's really nothing quite like them.

However, that said, I've been away from bikes altogether for quite a while now, so I'm torn about whether to purchase and rebuild an original (vintage) HD shovelhead motor, or buy a new (crate) motor from an aftermarket source like the SH-series shovelhead motors from S&S. Specifically, I'm concerned about the overall quality and reliability between the two approaches and the risks imposed by going the "used" vs. "new" route.

What's the general consensus on this topic out there? I doubt that a crate version of a shovelhead motor (as such) is available from HD at any price, and I know that S&S brand motors are well-respected (certainly their EVO's are!), but what would be the best way to go on something like this? If cost isn't a key issue, and we're not in any real hurry (which we aren't), should we look to buy a used shovel and rebuild it ourselves (or maybe have it professionally rebuilt)? Or would an S&S shovelhead motor be a perfectly reliable alternative with less potential headaches?

I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions and/or recommendations on this.

Many thanks.

 

No help but I too am interested in the same build with the same questions, I hope to tag along if you don't mind :-)

I am looking towards the Bobber look with simplisity in the design for a everyday rider.

 

This ones a 79' Bored and 98", 11.7:1, big *** cam, super E shorty, Hi4 64 panhead swingarm.http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/m...d/cdc0eccb.jpg New seat pan.http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/m...d/66e60617.jpghttp://i298.photobucket.com/albums/m...d/18b5afb5.jpg Opened up the neck.http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/m...d/5ed81668.jpghttp://i298.photobucket.com/albums/m...robber27sm.jpghttp://i298.photobucket.com/albums/m...8rod/shuv7.jpg Just thought this was a cool build thats all.

 

What are you gonna do with the bike really and think about your age and how much & how far you'll actually be riding it for starters . A stock shovel rebuilt correctly is as reliable as any other harley , had mine 30 yrs and over a half million miles now . She did a lot of those as a stock 74" then at 88" and now as 93" monster that's almost too much for a daily rider .

After market motors have come a LONG way but the S&S engines are way over priced , their getting up into the $7000 range last I looked and you can build one hell of a stock very reliable and solid running motor for a lot less than that including the motor price . Ultima make a solid shovel engine too FYI .

What I suggest for most people wanting to do the trendy bobber thing is do some shopping and find a beat up old shovel complete for around $3000 or so and you'll have all the big parts and clean title to start with , it's all the little unseen stuff on a complete bike that's the gold mine that stuff can add up to big bucks as you go .

 

Nope, I don't mind at all - the more the merrier! Good luck with your plans and your future build.

 

TwiZted,

Many thanks for your reply. To answer some of your questions and your recommendations . . .

1) AGE & USAGE: When I was 30, I was too old to drive a thousand miles on a bike to Sturgis, so at age 60, I'm definitely too old now! The farthest I think I've ever ridden on a bike in one sitting was at age 24, and it was about 360 miles on a '74 (900 cc) Sportster, trying to keep-up with a pack of 100/101" strokers. It was the one event that most led me to later buying a shovelhead, and it was the one event to convince me that long distance runs weren't my thing. So, to answer your question, what I'll be looking to build in a bobber is more of a short range (i.e., 100-mile per day max) bar-hopper than a touring bike.

2) ENGINE SIZE: You are about the fourth or fifth person that I've seen in recent days to say that 93" was plenty of motor, so there must be something to this. I've seen several other posts by owners of S&S 103's and other custom built shovels over 100", and for the most part, they've all said that it was more power than they needed. Personally speaking, its been 35+ years since I owned my only ('67) shovelhead, and frankly, I didn't pay that much attention to details like displacement specs back then, but if I'm not mistaken, it was about 80" CID. Most of the other big-bore guys that I rode with back then were all running 100+ shovels or pans, and although I test-drove a couple of those on an occasion or two, I honestly don't remember much of a difference. Traffic and other conditions were such that I don't think I was ever able to truly open them up enough to compare. In addition, extreme rakes and ultra-long girder front ends were vogue at the time, so they were extremely unstable at high speed.

3) AFTERMARKET MOTORS: Yes, I've seen reference to the Ultima brand motors, as well as S&S and TP Engineering, and I've also seen reference to a number of performance shops who will apparently modify these stock (production) motors at a price. I guess the most important thing you've said here in this regard is that you feel the S&S shovelheads (though over-priced) are well-made motors.

4) COSTS: There's absolutely no doubt that if a guy isn't careful, the costs of such a build can indeed get way out of control, and I know, because its happened to me. Like a fool, I stripped the motor outta my showroom new '74 Sportster back in the day and I built the entire bike from there. I probably had $12k into that stupid project before I was through, and in the end, the (AMF/Brunswick) motor proved to be junk. The '67 shovel which followed soon after, was a far better proposition all around. I didn't spend any more money than I had on the previous Sportster, but it produced a far more reliable bike and I recovered far more from it upon resale.

Thanks again.

 

I ran a 88" shovel with 8.5-1 compression with Jims hyd. lifters and good Vthunder cam for over 120,000 miles and this was my daily rider and road trip bike . 93" is edge of a reliable low maintenance shovel motor and honestly if your not running a fat dresser or hauling a 300lbs wife around 88" is the sweet spot for them . 88's balance out better & smother and have stock reliability , as a solo ride you don't notice much difference load one up with gear and a passenger and hit the hills the thing pulls like a locomotive .

S&S while having a good rep I've had problems with like the friggen rods knocking out of them , I build & repair old shovels I have a bucket with 8 set of trashed S&S rods all because the crank pins crater out on them . S&S is real bitch about warranty issues too they have a nasty habit of denying things for bullshit reasons , been down that road with them too for a couple people .

If you do go 93" I'll pass some advice , stay with the standard performance engine with under 9-1 comp and a civil usable cam don't be lured into the HiPo version . Unless you run compression releases they are a bear to start and they don't like the pump gas we have today , just updating the starting system and getting a healthy battery cost $500 or more and it will just barely turn it over , I run 240lbs and can stand on my kicker arm ......... Get the picture ?

My bikes the Hipo 93" and I'm seriously considering dropping the compression just make it ridable for an old guy I'm only a year or 2 under you . Biggest pain in the *** is buying racing gas and having to mix my own blend , 91 at the pump pings like a bear .

Honestly for just hot top bar hopper a good shop can make a stock 80" talk real dirty , in a light bobber on yah and you don't have to deal with all the downstream stuff the big incher will bring your way .

Good luck and keep us up on the project .

 

TwiZted,

Thanks again for your continued contributions to this thread. I'm grateful, and quite frankly, my son and I are gonna need all the help we can get in the weeks and months ahead.

To be honest, its hard to know (at least with any confidence), which is the best path forward for us. Personally, I'm 'techy' enough when it comes to dinkin' around with motors and standard maintenance, so I have no real concerns in that regard, and frankly, I had no real problems maintaining my own '67 shovel back in the day. However, we rarely made real big (long distance) trips back then (350+ per day was considered to be a major excursion), so any serious customizing or rebuilding of bottom- or top-ends might prove to be a bit above my pay-grade.

I think the most significant decision facing us at this early juncture, is whether to consider buying a suitable (vintage) HD shovel and having us (or someone else) rebuild it, or alternatively, settling for a crated 93" S&S or Ultima 96"? If we go the route of a vintage rebuild, I'm confident that I can handle the general wrenching involved (if I have some manuals and minimal guidance), but I don't have access to decent expertise nearby should an issue develop that is over my head. So that's a real concern.

And lastly, your recommendations about the 88" (vs. 93") shovel give me true pause. I say this, because strictly speaking, I'm not a "performance" hound that tends to get caught-up in the trappings of high displacement or high-output. I'd just like to put something together that my son and I could both ride on occasion without too much overhead. Problem is, I don't think the aftermarket folks (S&S, Ultima, etc.) make an 80" or 88" any longer? I know that S&S did at one time, but I'm not so sure any more?

 

My 88" was put together using a set of stock 80" 4-1/4" stroke flywheels , bored the case & the heads to accept the bigger 3-5/8" bore cylinders with cast 8.5-1 pistons . Picked up a kit with new cylinders , pistons rings , new headbolt & base nuts with gaskets , you can get these still for about $600 and the heads got a standard valve job using high lift springs & collars to take the bigger cam . Total on the engine parts wise was about $1400 and that includes the new Jims lifters at the time . Any decent old school indy shop can do the wheels & cases for you reasonable the rest is bolt together .

As you can tell I like this stuff , been doing shovels 30 plus years from stock to yee haw .

Partner if you just building a kick around toy I'd suggest a healthy stock 80" .

 

Yup, I understand, but as I said earlier, I don't believe anyone reputable is building an aftermarket 80" shovel. Do you have any suggestions? It certainly isn't S&S, or Ultima, or TP, or HD.