Hello, first post here. I thought I would share my experience in case it might spare someone else from the same mistake. Also, I'm curious to gather opinions of where I should take it from here.
This was my first time doing HD engine work... But I am not new to engine work. I have had a fairly accomplished career in automotive performance, built plenty of (non-HD) engines with complete success... But I got lazy today, and it just bit me in the *** big time $. So go easy on me!
Allow me to explain how to totally screw up this entry level job: When I was extracting the factory cam bearing, I did not fully insert the dowel into the extraction tool. I had felt some decent resistance tapping it in, and assumed I was far enough in... and I didn't want to run the dowel into the flywheel and bang on that. It even occurred me to: I should remove the tool assembly and mark the dowel with a sharpie where the ends meet flush. But, I didn't. I didn't imagine the consequence at stake. I just "sent it". Result: The less than fully expanded tool collet slipped past the bearing race and cracked the bearing cage. 2 rollers and a sliver of the cage apparently fell back into the crankcase (as they are nowhere else to be found).
And there you have it. I cannot fathom any way to retrieve these bits from the crankcase short of an overhaul. I noticed a sensor at the front/bottom of the case that I imagined was a crank trigger, so I pulled that to see if I could gain any access to fish around with a magnet or welding rod... negative.. the flywheel/trigger wheel is immediately behind this opening with no space to fish around with any decent articulation.
At first, I didnt even realize how big of a deal it was. I reset the tool and pulled the bearing and pushed the new one in. Then I decided it was time to go after those bits... and it didnt take long for me to discover, wait a minute, this thing doesn't open down there!
So now I have some very big decisions to make about what to do with the engine. No way I am going through an overall on a 1000 mile bike only to retrieve those rollers, so it looks like its time to start exploring engine packages.
UPDATE: So my last post was that I got a roller out, and I was still missing one. I spent another hour or two trying to get it out using the technique that worked on the last one, and I came up dry. I was pretty damn confident that it was not in there. BUT obviously there is no true comfort until it is found. But accepting that I might never find it, I wanted to take preparations.
SO, I decided to put a strainer on my oil pumps crankcase scavenge port.
reverse engineer original scavenge inlet
adjust to how I need it
locating part XY
locating part Z
peeking in after each tool path and checking with caliper
press in strainer insert
Oil pump was officially wearing protection from any rollers residing in the crankcase.
THEN I get home tonight, and decide to see if this giant crazy 400# magnet I got on Amazon can help me out or not. I wave it around a ton hoping to break a roller free from wherever some sticky SYN3 might be holding it inside that crankcase. Then I get out a little stack of coin magnets I have to wave past the sump and see if i hear any roller scraping on the cast aluminum. WHATS THAT I HEAR?? Was it just the magnet touching the case? Was it the sound of my finger rubbing that case RTV again? I get a good grip and slowly slide that magnet across the sump of the case while using my finger tips to keep the magnet off the surface of the case (The large case screws and flywheel and you-name-it are trying to pull the magnet up). I hear something small, metal, and LOOSE in there. I work it over near the scavenge port of the sump. The port is slightly raised off the sump floor so I cannot just walk it all the way out with a magnet.
I made a little magnet finger out of a welding rod wrapped around the magnet. It looks some trial and error to figure out a shape that would transmit the magnet field to the tip (i dont know jack about magnetism). I tell you what, this exact shape didnt work until I put that little 180 loop on the very tip. I determined it was magnetized at the tip, I stuck it up the NPT plug, right angle 90 degrees to the sump, tilt it down a little to the floor... CLICK - GOT IT.
I feel your pain, I had a similar experience when I did my cam. Fortunately I found the missing roller on the garage floor the next day. I don’t know your financial situation but this could definitely be a good reason to build the engine how you want it.
dumb Q, but "I have had a fairly accomplished career in Dumb Questions"
can you vacuum it out?
process: take a shop vac with a large diameter hose, cut a T-shirt into a about a foot square piece.
fit that piece somewhere in the suction line of the vacuum hose.
tape a straw into the nozzle/intake/suction/business end of the vacuum.
shove the straw in there, and if that don't work, put a rubber vacuum/fuel hose on the straw to work it around.
pull the T-shirt piece out, and see what you vacuumed up.
doesn't the OEM oil plug have a magnet on it?
maybe pull drain plug, and catch all the Oil in a "painters filter" to see if you can wash the parts out?
i would end up trying compressed air, too, because i get jiggy like that....
I feel your pain, I had a similar experience when I did my cam. Fortunately I found the missing roller on the garage floor the next day. I don’t know your financial situation but this could definitely be a good reason to build the engine how you want it.
Thanks, it makes me feel a little better to know I am not the first guy to bust the bearing. I looked and looked but I only found 1 of the 3 missing rollers
Well, I wasn't prepared to spend a small fortune on the Harley at this moment in time! I actually wanted to keep a vehicle somewhat stock for once. But I guess this is where I am now!
Pull the oil pump and see if it’s there. Also drain the oil and pull the crank sensor (just be careful putting it back in, don’t want to crack the case). You can also try to flush the ‘cam hole’ with mineral spirits and see if the pieces flush out through the cam chest
dumb Q, but "I have had a fairly accomplished career in Dumb Questions"
can you vacuum it out?
process: take a shop vac with a large diameter hose, cut a T-shirt into a about a foot square piece.
fit that piece somewhere in the suction line of the vacuum hose.
tape a straw into the nozzle/intake/suction/business end of the vacuum.
shove the straw in there, and if that don't work, put a rubber vacuum/fuel hose on the straw to work it around.
pull the T-shirt piece out, and see what you vacuumed up.
doesn't the OEM oil plug have a magnet on it?
maybe pull drain plug, and catch all the Oil in a "painters filter" to see if you can wash the parts out?
i would end up trying compressed air, too, because i get jiggy like that....
I hadnt considered a vacuum. The crankshaft is directly below the cam bearing and quite an obstacle but it could be worth a shot. But it is just a 1.25" diameter hole so it will be tight to make that immediate 90 degree bend downward through this hole.
I will drain the oil and hope and prey that the bits come along... but I am not too optimistic about that. With how far back the drain plug is, I fear the bits will hang up on something along the way.
Pull the oil pump and see if it’s there. Also drain the oil and pull the crank sensor (just be careful putting it back in, don’t want to crack the case). You can also try to flush the ‘cam hole’ with mineral spirits and see if the pieces flush out through the cam chest
I had the oil pump out when it happened. I was hoping that when I pulled the crank sensor out that most the oil would flush out there and perhaps bring the pieces, but very little oil came out here. I suppose I could try elevating the rear of the bike and see if i can get it to flush out quickly there.
08-18-2018, 07:49 PM
Messed up my cam install!!! <smdh>
