Good day, I'm thinking to install a SE hybrid cam plate kit #25284-11 . The kit use the OEM inner morse chain and I have a 2000 Night Train therefore I have to reuse the OEM front morse chain too, to maintain the cam position sensor. Has anyone installed it and than inspected after miles the inner hydraulic tensioner for wear (or the inner/outer if it's a 99-01 model)? They last longer than the spring tensioners with the morse chain? I read on the web that a cause of the early spring tensioners wear is also the morse chain, but I didn't find anything about hybrid kit tensioner after some miles.
Thank you

 

It is total worthless..In fact what I have see is it makes it worst. The roller chain is the clue to no wear since once it grooves in, the chain rolls on the rollers. The hydraulic is just smoke and if you up the oil pressure, it's a disaster on the inner and with you outer also. Some say the spring tensioner is too tight at idle but who idles a Harley. What does wear the link with spring tensioners is high speed. Turning over 4000rpm actually causes the oil to cavitate as chain crosses over the tensioner blasting out pieces. That is why the link chain with the pebble look finish surface works best. Here is a few examples and the miles on the picture attachment for first two. Link chain, roller and combination which had way less the 20K. Last picture is pebble look of link chain for minimum cavitation (mine at 30K with little wear). Harley Mother Ship screwed a bunch of people with the link chain and they just ask you to bend over for some more. Good luck. You will need to check the inner regular. Probably at 10K will give you an idea when you should check again. I just hope you would make it to 10K. The above is just my opinion and what I have seen. However, I can not remember who posted picture 3 now. Maybe he will chime in and some one who has had good luck with the inner link chain on a hydraulic change over.

 

Thank you RIPSAW for the answer and the pics! So it isn't a good way to go. I don't know what to do : I want to change cams and go with a pair of Andrews 26, the complete conversion is good, new pump and camplate, but I don't like the parent material bushings, and if I buy the SE cam plate with bronze bushings I have to spend more $.
The gear drive it's a good alternative too, I have a 2000 therefore with Timken and hot forged crank, but I read that some 99-02 crank can have eccessive runout. Anyone have experience with runout of these years model?
I saw that there is a new pad made by Cyco with different material, but I didn't find someone who inspected them after some miles to compare with the OEM.

 

Yeah that's some good info about a poor design. It only reinforces going to gear drive on mine soon.

 

Remember, if you look at the old gear drive EVO's and Sportys, they have outboard shaft bearings. A TC was never designed for gears. Even if the run-out at cranking speed is low, at 3000-5000 rpm, the gears are actually supporting them self by the mesh spinning out there. That is the faint whine you hear on gear setup when you blip it. Chains are actually more efficient and drag off less HP and more then accurate enough at a V-Twin rpm range. I have never tied it down about the Cyco..See them on Ebay as a low buck shoe replacement for the spring-shoe. Someone said they held up. They like Harley's shoe are probably just cast delrin. We used it at work for all kinds of bearing applications. Numerous grades. We even heat treated it in hot oil baths to harden it. My chain locks was from scraps back when they through the scraps away in the landfill that they allowed us to collect firewood at years ago. Harley's orange was a medium hard grade as I recall. The white like the Cyco was a softer grad..probably a good grad for roller chain since it did not crack. We use it for mask bearings. We also heat treated it by age harding in hot-oil to make it quite hard. They had a soft pink grade also.

 

If I'm not mistaken if your going to change the Camm you can fit the roller chain on the inside as well doing away with the original chains altogether.

 

You are correct on a TC that if you replace cams, you can go to roller chains both side since the sprocket is part of the new cams. However, you end up with sleeve bearings on the cam plate and loose the ball bearings races. I assumed Greemans talking about needing to keep his outer link had something to do with the sensor under the timer cover that was on the first TCs. I forget now but it does a couple things before Harley eliminated it. One thing it does is a double check with the CPS on the front left to give a cam error. No check on later TCs. However, I did not know it read the chain. When I look at the fish, I cannot tell what it reads and I do not have a 2000 service manual (my only copy is in German that was given to me) I thought it was a position on the gear. Maybe the replacement cams do not have it. I had thought due to lack of sales, most providers had dropped this conversion. We are talking antique bikes here? HA

 

All to complicated for me man, I've got an 06 Nightrain, checked my Camm shoes at 25,000 all ok, when they're f**ked I'll just get some more of the same.

 

I did a complete conversion, plate, bearings, pump, cams and head work. Its difference is night and day. My bike runs about 10 to 15 degrees cooler, has major ***** and cruises like a dream. My oil pressure has gone up 15 to 20 pounds. I couldnt be happier and wish I did it sooner.

 

Cyco shoes are made of PA46 Stanyl , I read this on his site http://www.harleydavidsontensioner.com/ . I think it's a different material than delrin but I'm not an expert.
Andrews make a specific sprocket to convert to front roller chain while maintaining the cam position sensor. I think the complete conversion it's a good upgrade, but I'm not convinced about the bearingless cam plate of the 07-up TC. The cam plate has no bearings, no bronze bushings but a "parent material" surface, there is only oil between the cam journal and the cam plate. But I didn't find any photos of cam hole wear, but someone said that had this issue. You have any experience about that?
Maybe the wear is so slight that it's evident only after 100k miles or more...
With 2011 MoCo remove from the cam plate the bronze pinion bushing too.