too much rear brakes !
#21
06-07-2017, 01:27 PM
Has you or anyone else changed pedals ??? as to a longer one that would add leverage to master cyl for more pressure but not noticed by your foot !!!!
Example
I ride a Sportster it has a short pedal I put a lot of pressure to apply brakes , Then I get on my Tour Glide and if I'm not careful I lock up the rear wheel , the pedal is much longer on the Tour Glide and gives more leverage
What are you used to ???
Example
I ride a Sportster it has a short pedal I put a lot of pressure to apply brakes , Then I get on my Tour Glide and if I'm not careful I lock up the rear wheel , the pedal is much longer on the Tour Glide and gives more leverage
What are you used to ???
I'm tending toward the proportioning valve idea at present.
I'm not suffering from sticking components in my rear brake system, it's just in a panic-stop, I think my right foot thinks it's the acclerator pedal !!
#22
06-07-2017, 01:29 PM
I do all my own maintenance/work/tire changes on the bike and am fully versed as a mechanic, so yes I can attest to proper installation/assembly. Yes I own the service manual that is model-specific to my application.
Last edited by michla; 06-07-2017 at 01:37 PM.
#23
06-07-2017, 02:51 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
2001 Softail Standard here, FXSTI.
The pads I installed are the OEM sintered bronze material but the rear brakes have always been tricky. A little aggressive pressure on the rear pedal locks up the rear wheel really fast for a disproportionate pedal travel--in other words, the first may 3mm of pedal travel there is very slight "grab" at the rotor but much more pedal after that and the clamping force of the pads against the rotor increases unpredictably.
The pads I installed are the OEM sintered bronze material but the rear brakes have always been tricky. A little aggressive pressure on the rear pedal locks up the rear wheel really fast for a disproportionate pedal travel--in other words, the first may 3mm of pedal travel there is very slight "grab" at the rotor but much more pedal after that and the clamping force of the pads against the rotor increases unpredictably.
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michla (06-09-2017)
#25
06-08-2017, 09:02 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
2001 Softail Standard here, FXSTI.
The pads I installed are the OEM sintered bronze material but the rear brakes have always been tricky. A little aggressive pressure on the rear pedal locks up the rear wheel really fast for a disproportionate pedal travel--in other words, the first may 3mm of pedal travel there is very slight "grab" at the rotor but much more pedal after that and the clamping force of the pads against the rotor increases unpredictably.
I know all-organic pads wouldn't be so aggressive but they make a real dust mess of the wheel. Anyone else had better results using rear pad brands or materials that aren't so aggressive? Has anyone found a bolt in replacement rear master cylinder for the softail that has say, a larger piston cross section thus reducing the aggressiveness of the pedal pressure?
The pads I installed are the OEM sintered bronze material but the rear brakes have always been tricky. A little aggressive pressure on the rear pedal locks up the rear wheel really fast for a disproportionate pedal travel--in other words, the first may 3mm of pedal travel there is very slight "grab" at the rotor but much more pedal after that and the clamping force of the pads against the rotor increases unpredictably.
I know all-organic pads wouldn't be so aggressive but they make a real dust mess of the wheel. Anyone else had better results using rear pad brands or materials that aren't so aggressive? Has anyone found a bolt in replacement rear master cylinder for the softail that has say, a larger piston cross section thus reducing the aggressiveness of the pedal pressure?
Then I guess the choice comes down to either a little dust to wash off or chew up the rotor and live with touchy brakes. Personally I run organics on my Heritage Classic and have no problem stopping. I would never open up the bleeder and introduce air into the brake system. That just makes the brakes feel spongy. Plus, when it heats up it may expand, cause the pads to drag on the rotor and overheat the brakes. That would be no bueno.
P.S.
Try flushing out the system with denatured alcohol (not rubbing alcohol), clean out the caliper and change the fluid. Also check around and see if maybe they make a semi-metallic pad for your application.
Last edited by Hey Man; 06-09-2017 at 05:35 AM.
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michla (06-09-2017)
#26
07-21-2018, 02:32 AM
5th Gear
Hi All,
My '05 1200c Sportster rear master cylinder needs to be rebuilt AGAIN" every time brake pad are installed or a tier is changed the diaphragms are destroyed and frankly I am tiered of repairing it, I am going to be installing a new master today. but I would like to find out if there is an alternative to the stock Harley Master cylinder that is not so delicate? I have been riding with out back brakes for over a month now just waiting for the part to arrive at the Harley dealership.
My '05 1200c Sportster rear master cylinder needs to be rebuilt AGAIN" every time brake pad are installed or a tier is changed the diaphragms are destroyed and frankly I am tiered of repairing it, I am going to be installing a new master today. but I would like to find out if there is an alternative to the stock Harley Master cylinder that is not so delicate? I have been riding with out back brakes for over a month now just waiting for the part to arrive at the Harley dealership.
#27
07-21-2018, 01:00 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Not sure where you would hear that, other than from the mouth of an idiot...
You are right to be skeptical of that "advice"....... DO NOT ADD AIR to your brake system... that would be extremely counterproductive.
In a properly running hydraulic brake system, the harder you push, the stronger the "grab" of the calipers... it's not always directly proportional or completely linear... but you should be able to develop a feel for them... When I brake hard or soft, I couldn't even guess how far the pedal is traveling. I do it all by pressure felt, not pedal movement. Unless of course, the pedal "goes to the floor".....
I don't know you from Adam, or your experience, so I don't mean to insult you, but I need to point out the obvious. You insist your brake system has no issues. If there is not a problem in your system, the rear brake is locking up because of what you are doing. You might want to read/learn about threshold braking and then practice whenever you can. After learning the proper technique, and with practice, it can/will become your go-to reaction in a panic stop scenario. Without ABS, if you just JAM on a brake in a panic situation, especially with the associated adrenalin rush, in most cases it will lock up the tire(s).
While I like a good ABS system, and believe it enhances safety, I have ridden more miles on bikes without ABS than with ABS. I still have two bikes without ABS and don't feel like I'm "in danger" because they don't have ABS. That is because I have learned/practiced threshold braking in both cages & bikes for over 30 years. It has become my go-to reaction in a fast/panic stop situation... In all the fast stops I've needed to make, my ABS hasn't kicked in yet...
The point is ..... learning good braking technique would be time better spent, than trying to re-engineer your brake system to allow for bad brake technique...
Just some food for thought...
Last edited by hattitude; 07-21-2018 at 01:06 PM.
#28
06-08-2020, 02:49 PM
update with more info on the install:
the proportioning valve REALLY reduced the rear-end skidding problem significantly enough to make the investment! I wouldn't ever use hard line on a Harley for all the engine vibration and possibility of steel line fracturing from fatigue, so I used stainless-braided flexible brake lines, the size is AN3 which is like 7/64" ID but exactly the size needed for any flexible brake line on a Harley. Brands like Allstar and Russell and Barnett Cable (makes custom orders) are great quality, just search for AN3 hose and the stainless braided will pop up. You want the hose with the female coupling nut at either end installed and purchase the appropriate fitting to install on the end if you want (great for unusual angles etc), it's just a male JIC taper-fitting with no seal needed. If you search "AN3 fittings" with the male end you'll find an assortment of angles and ends--all are JIC taper male ends that mate to that coupling nut on your hose. If you go with buying seperate fittings to connect to brake components, just be sure to loctite the coupling screw on assembly so it won't get loose of course. If you're really lucky, you'll find AN3 braided hose with the proper ends then you don't have to mess with seperate end purchases. I had one 30 degree angle fitting needed (arch up from the install point) so I had to buy the end fittings.
The primeary reason for the stainless braid is to make certain no flying debris or rubbing cuts or chafes the hose enough to fail. The only bad with braided hose cover is of course it can "saw" through something over time from flexing and rubbing, so either get the type with the additional clear plastic jacket over the braid (does yellow over long time) or route and secure your braided hose very carefully, affixing its path along secure points with wrap ties.
Just make sure you test your proportioning valve setting in an empty parking lot with a decently hard stop rather than go out into the real world where you might need all the safe braking you can get
the proportioning valve REALLY reduced the rear-end skidding problem significantly enough to make the investment! I wouldn't ever use hard line on a Harley for all the engine vibration and possibility of steel line fracturing from fatigue, so I used stainless-braided flexible brake lines, the size is AN3 which is like 7/64" ID but exactly the size needed for any flexible brake line on a Harley. Brands like Allstar and Russell and Barnett Cable (makes custom orders) are great quality, just search for AN3 hose and the stainless braided will pop up. You want the hose with the female coupling nut at either end installed and purchase the appropriate fitting to install on the end if you want (great for unusual angles etc), it's just a male JIC taper-fitting with no seal needed. If you search "AN3 fittings" with the male end you'll find an assortment of angles and ends--all are JIC taper male ends that mate to that coupling nut on your hose. If you go with buying seperate fittings to connect to brake components, just be sure to loctite the coupling screw on assembly so it won't get loose of course. If you're really lucky, you'll find AN3 braided hose with the proper ends then you don't have to mess with seperate end purchases. I had one 30 degree angle fitting needed (arch up from the install point) so I had to buy the end fittings.
The primeary reason for the stainless braid is to make certain no flying debris or rubbing cuts or chafes the hose enough to fail. The only bad with braided hose cover is of course it can "saw" through something over time from flexing and rubbing, so either get the type with the additional clear plastic jacket over the braid (does yellow over long time) or route and secure your braided hose very carefully, affixing its path along secure points with wrap ties.
Just make sure you test your proportioning valve setting in an empty parking lot with a decently hard stop rather than go out into the real world where you might need all the safe braking you can get
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