Breakout Sound Fix and Cat Delete
#1
01-16-2014, 10:08 AM
Breakout Sound Fix and Cat Delete
I posted this in another forum, and finally got some time to copy and paste it over here.
Well, with all the questions I have asked, it is time for me to get something back to this forum.
I may not know much about my bike yet, but I know it is too quiet. I am also a farmer, so tackling jobs and figuring things out is a "pass time" of mine! lol
so, after reading multiple posts, I decided to remove the cat's in an attempt to give a little more roar from my bike. However, my setup is totally different than anything else I have seen posted. As of yet, I haven't taken her to the road yet, just listened to the difference in the shop at idle with some cracks of the throttle. Trying to rate sound is different to everyone, but here is my conclusion. I will give stock a rating of 1, and no mufflers/open pipes a rating of 10. I would give this mod a rating of about 3. Was a little disappointed, but maybe a road test will make me edit my thoughts.
The following post will show what I did.
First this is to remove the mufflers from the bike. You will need:
9/16" socket
3/8" socket
socket handle
flat-tipped screw driver
WD-40 - seemed to help on the second one
a white, non-marring rubber mallet.
1. Remove heat shield with screw driver
2. Remove bolts from underneath with 3/8" socket
3. Remove exhaust clap with 9/16" socket
4. Spray a little WD-40 around the clamp and where the muffler fits over the pipe.
5. With the mallet, tap the clamp forward and off the muffler.
6. Pull muffler off. You may need to tap gently on the muffler while pulling backwards and wiggling up and down.
Next, you will need to drill out the 3 rivets holding the baffle assembly in the pipe. These rivets are stainless steel, so use a sharp 1/4" drill bit, drill slowly, with a liberal amount of cutting oil or water. I also used a vise grip to clamp the back side of the rivet while drilling to keep it from rotating.
After drilling off the heads of the rivets, use a small punch and hammer to punch the rivet out. Once the rivets are out, you should be able to grip the center pipe, and pull the entire assembly out. If it is stuck, you can use a large punch, bolt, etc to tap it out from the front side towards the exit. The punch will go against the cat baffles, and bend them. Since they are being taking out, it’s not a big problem.
Use gloves to pull everything out, as it is wrapped with fiberglass, and that in/on your hands really sucks. Once out, unroll the fiberglass packing and set it aside
Next you will need to cut through the welds on both sides of the cat. I left the tapered cones intact, so that I could reuse them.
On the first one, I used an air disc, because I didn't know exactly how the baffles were placed inside. These baffles are super hard, and once through the weld, the disc will be rapidly reduced to nothing, so cut carefully!
However, if you cut tight to the welds, on the front side, and the back side, you will be ok.
The first one I did, I cut off the front side, and thought I could pull the guts out. THIS DOESN"T WORK! You simple can't get them out. Tried pounding them out, that doesn't work either.
As a last resort, I got the torch to try and cut them out. While this does work, it makes a mess on the inside of the pipe, and you simple cannot clean it up or smooth it out.
So you are better off cutting the entire chunk out, and get some pipe of the same size to replace this portion. I got some 2.25" OD pipe and worked fine.
I then measured what I had cut out, and cut a new piece of pipe at the same length to weld into place.
Next I tack welded the new center piece on the tapered cone, and on the remaining pieces. This is important, as you should fit the pieces all back into the pipe to make sure the rivet holes all line up and you don't have to long. Too short may be ok, but I didn't want them loose and rattling around. If you aren't worried about them becoming loose, you could probably just cut of the entire end and put it all back together.
Here is the finished product.
I then wrapped the fiberglass back around, installed back into the pipe, and used new rivets to attach everything together. I didn't have SS rivets, so I used aluminum. We will see how they hold up.
I opted to leave the rest alone until I can ride and see if there is anything other affected. There is a block off plate, located about 5" into the end, from the front side. If you want more sound, you can probably drill a hole in the center of the plate. The larger the hole, the more sound should be heard. This may be something I will try at a later date.
You can now install the muffler assembly back on the bike. I don't know how of if this will affect the performance of if a re-tune will be needed. But more flow should create more power. I don't know if it will be noticeable or not, so modify at your own risk.
Hopefully this will help someone out there. :-) If you are looking for a more noticeable sound, I would drill/punch out that center plate. But now that I know what is involved, it should be easy enough to remove the mufflers and make this change at a later date.
This took me about 2.5 hours for the first one, from off to on and maybe an hour for the second. I did one at a time, but lost a lot of time trying to get the cat baffles removed. Just get some new pipe and remove the chunk and it will make your life easier!
Happy riding.
Road test complete.
Seat-Of-Pants - No change in sound or performance.
On to the next phase next week when I get a chance, experimenting with different size holes through the block off plate.
Phase 2 - drill out blocking plate
I drilled out the plate, starting with 1/2" dia hole. This yielded pretty much nothing. I then drilled out to 1" dia hole. While this gave a slight tone, it was basically pointless.
After I got back from my ride, I decided more drastic measures were in order.
Phase 3 - Modify stock perforated tubes.
Basically, I made glass packs out of the stock parts. Yahtzee! I now have a low, throaty rumble at idle and city cruising speeds. Highway speeds, you can hear the low rumble, but not obnoxious! Very happy. There is a little popping noise when you chop the throttle to slow down or down shift, but only about 3 pops. This does not bother me at all, I kind of like it. Sounds more "aggressive" but not over the top, IMO.
This phase was simple to do. About an hour and I was riding again.
I gutted the mufflers again. This time, I cut through the weld, where the cat tapered tube meets the perf tube. I was then able to remove the outer perf tube and set it aside.
Next, I cut off the end plate, right where it starts to taper down to meet the exit tube. This will eliminate the center baffle tube.
I then reinstalled the outer perf tube on the end plate, and lined up the other end of the perf tube with the cat chamber.
I re-wrapped the fiberglass around the perf tube, and installed back into the muffler housing.
And that's it. A louder, deeper baffle for $0 and a couple hours of work, start to finish. If you can run a hack saw (although a chop saw and/or band saw is easier!) and have access to a welder, you can easily do this.
Phase 4
After riding for a while around town, some of the de-cell popping has started to bug me. So I talked with a local mechanic, and decided to try one thing before doing any re-mapping. He suggested that many times there is air sucked back in from the end of the tail pipe, mixes with the unburnt fuel, and causes an explosion. If I can disrupt the flow of air back in, it may help.
So I dismantled once again, and I made 2 " [ " shaped cuts in each perf tube. They are about 1" wide x 3/4" long.I then bent this tab slightly down, so that any air (if in fact that is possible) would be directed up into the fiberglass instead.
After a test ride, it seemed that this did help slightly. However, not enough to make me happy. It appeared that the intensity of the popping with less, but it is kind of hard making the comparison without both set-ups to jump from one to the other.
I have since purchased a PV, but winter came early, and haven't had a chance to mess with it.
Well, with all the questions I have asked, it is time for me to get something back to this forum.
I may not know much about my bike yet, but I know it is too quiet. I am also a farmer, so tackling jobs and figuring things out is a "pass time" of mine! lol
so, after reading multiple posts, I decided to remove the cat's in an attempt to give a little more roar from my bike. However, my setup is totally different than anything else I have seen posted. As of yet, I haven't taken her to the road yet, just listened to the difference in the shop at idle with some cracks of the throttle. Trying to rate sound is different to everyone, but here is my conclusion. I will give stock a rating of 1, and no mufflers/open pipes a rating of 10. I would give this mod a rating of about 3. Was a little disappointed, but maybe a road test will make me edit my thoughts.
The following post will show what I did.
First this is to remove the mufflers from the bike. You will need:
9/16" socket
3/8" socket
socket handle
flat-tipped screw driver
WD-40 - seemed to help on the second one
a white, non-marring rubber mallet.
1. Remove heat shield with screw driver
2. Remove bolts from underneath with 3/8" socket
3. Remove exhaust clap with 9/16" socket
4. Spray a little WD-40 around the clamp and where the muffler fits over the pipe.
5. With the mallet, tap the clamp forward and off the muffler.
6. Pull muffler off. You may need to tap gently on the muffler while pulling backwards and wiggling up and down.
Next, you will need to drill out the 3 rivets holding the baffle assembly in the pipe. These rivets are stainless steel, so use a sharp 1/4" drill bit, drill slowly, with a liberal amount of cutting oil or water. I also used a vise grip to clamp the back side of the rivet while drilling to keep it from rotating.
After drilling off the heads of the rivets, use a small punch and hammer to punch the rivet out. Once the rivets are out, you should be able to grip the center pipe, and pull the entire assembly out. If it is stuck, you can use a large punch, bolt, etc to tap it out from the front side towards the exit. The punch will go against the cat baffles, and bend them. Since they are being taking out, it’s not a big problem.
Use gloves to pull everything out, as it is wrapped with fiberglass, and that in/on your hands really sucks. Once out, unroll the fiberglass packing and set it aside
Next you will need to cut through the welds on both sides of the cat. I left the tapered cones intact, so that I could reuse them.
On the first one, I used an air disc, because I didn't know exactly how the baffles were placed inside. These baffles are super hard, and once through the weld, the disc will be rapidly reduced to nothing, so cut carefully!
However, if you cut tight to the welds, on the front side, and the back side, you will be ok.
The first one I did, I cut off the front side, and thought I could pull the guts out. THIS DOESN"T WORK! You simple can't get them out. Tried pounding them out, that doesn't work either.
As a last resort, I got the torch to try and cut them out. While this does work, it makes a mess on the inside of the pipe, and you simple cannot clean it up or smooth it out.
So you are better off cutting the entire chunk out, and get some pipe of the same size to replace this portion. I got some 2.25" OD pipe and worked fine.
I then measured what I had cut out, and cut a new piece of pipe at the same length to weld into place.
Next I tack welded the new center piece on the tapered cone, and on the remaining pieces. This is important, as you should fit the pieces all back into the pipe to make sure the rivet holes all line up and you don't have to long. Too short may be ok, but I didn't want them loose and rattling around. If you aren't worried about them becoming loose, you could probably just cut of the entire end and put it all back together.
Here is the finished product.
I then wrapped the fiberglass back around, installed back into the pipe, and used new rivets to attach everything together. I didn't have SS rivets, so I used aluminum. We will see how they hold up.
I opted to leave the rest alone until I can ride and see if there is anything other affected. There is a block off plate, located about 5" into the end, from the front side. If you want more sound, you can probably drill a hole in the center of the plate. The larger the hole, the more sound should be heard. This may be something I will try at a later date.
You can now install the muffler assembly back on the bike. I don't know how of if this will affect the performance of if a re-tune will be needed. But more flow should create more power. I don't know if it will be noticeable or not, so modify at your own risk.
Hopefully this will help someone out there. :-) If you are looking for a more noticeable sound, I would drill/punch out that center plate. But now that I know what is involved, it should be easy enough to remove the mufflers and make this change at a later date.
This took me about 2.5 hours for the first one, from off to on and maybe an hour for the second. I did one at a time, but lost a lot of time trying to get the cat baffles removed. Just get some new pipe and remove the chunk and it will make your life easier!
Happy riding.
Road test complete.
Seat-Of-Pants - No change in sound or performance.
On to the next phase next week when I get a chance, experimenting with different size holes through the block off plate.
Phase 2 - drill out blocking plate
I drilled out the plate, starting with 1/2" dia hole. This yielded pretty much nothing. I then drilled out to 1" dia hole. While this gave a slight tone, it was basically pointless.
After I got back from my ride, I decided more drastic measures were in order.
Phase 3 - Modify stock perforated tubes.
Basically, I made glass packs out of the stock parts. Yahtzee! I now have a low, throaty rumble at idle and city cruising speeds. Highway speeds, you can hear the low rumble, but not obnoxious! Very happy. There is a little popping noise when you chop the throttle to slow down or down shift, but only about 3 pops. This does not bother me at all, I kind of like it. Sounds more "aggressive" but not over the top, IMO.
This phase was simple to do. About an hour and I was riding again.
I gutted the mufflers again. This time, I cut through the weld, where the cat tapered tube meets the perf tube. I was then able to remove the outer perf tube and set it aside.
Next, I cut off the end plate, right where it starts to taper down to meet the exit tube. This will eliminate the center baffle tube.
I then reinstalled the outer perf tube on the end plate, and lined up the other end of the perf tube with the cat chamber.
I re-wrapped the fiberglass around the perf tube, and installed back into the muffler housing.
And that's it. A louder, deeper baffle for $0 and a couple hours of work, start to finish. If you can run a hack saw (although a chop saw and/or band saw is easier!) and have access to a welder, you can easily do this.
Phase 4
After riding for a while around town, some of the de-cell popping has started to bug me. So I talked with a local mechanic, and decided to try one thing before doing any re-mapping. He suggested that many times there is air sucked back in from the end of the tail pipe, mixes with the unburnt fuel, and causes an explosion. If I can disrupt the flow of air back in, it may help.
So I dismantled once again, and I made 2 " [ " shaped cuts in each perf tube. They are about 1" wide x 3/4" long.I then bent this tab slightly down, so that any air (if in fact that is possible) would be directed up into the fiberglass instead.
After a test ride, it seemed that this did help slightly. However, not enough to make me happy. It appeared that the intensity of the popping with less, but it is kind of hard making the comparison without both set-ups to jump from one to the other.
I have since purchased a PV, but winter came early, and haven't had a chance to mess with it.
#7
01-16-2014, 10:25 AM
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#9
01-16-2014, 11:18 AM
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Man sounds like you went through a lot of trouble. I removed baffles completely and basically running open pipes and I love the sound. I very rarely get a pop and notice it's only when I back off the throttle at high RPMs without engaging the clutch. Simple fix just don't do it. In my opinion it seemed to open up the power some, stock it seemed to be choked down. It won't hurt the motor by releasing more airflow through the exhaust but will require mapping if you take in more airflow.
#10
01-16-2014, 12:42 PM
Road Master