Notices
Sportster Models 883, 883 Custom, 1200 Custom, 883L, 1200L, 1200S, 1200 Roadster, XR1200, and the Nightster.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Clutch pack grenade plate

 
  #21  
Old 11-02-2018, 06:22 PM
misput
misput is offline
Senior Rider
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: St. Louis Mo.
Posts: 472
Received 22 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by TimmyPage View Post
I posted this in the general chat area but thought to try it here, too.

The recent 2017 clutch recall got me thinking. Why hasn't Harley ever done anything to fix the whole grenade issue with Sportster clutches? It seems like a large enough issue that could go off in every single Sporty that has some miles on it, and a flaw Harley could easily fix by not using brass rivots on that one plate.

They have changed many other parts over the years to improve the bike. Why not address the one design flaw these have?
I replaced my clutch at 35000 mi when I did the Hammer Kit conversion and it looked like new. Could clutch failure be attributed to abuse, just asking?

 
  #22  
Old 11-02-2018, 08:43 PM
John Harper
John Harper is offline
Elite HDF Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Carlsbad
Posts: 3,996
Received 230 Likes on 195 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by misput View Post
I replaced my clutch at 35000 mi when I did the Hammer Kit conversion and it looked like new. Could clutch failure be attributed to abuse, just asking?
I agree. I'm sure it could not help. Definitely could be a factor IMO.

John
 
  #23  
Old 11-02-2018, 09:17 PM
Long lonesome highwayman
Long lonesome highwayman is offline
Road Master
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: ohio
Posts: 838
Received 165 Likes on 119 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by John Harper View Post
The 2004-6 rubbermounts (maybe later) seem more likely to have this problem. If you go over to xlforum.net they have a long running poll about this measured by mileage. 80% of the reported clutch spring plate failures are on rubbermounts.

John
Well that makes me feel a little better then.
 
  #24  
Old 12-15-2018, 03:36 PM
08xl1200r
08xl1200r is offline
One Of The Regulars
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: west coast
Posts: 123
Received 29 Likes on 29 Posts
Default

FWIW Alto Products makes an spring separator plate PN 095763 that is supposed to be better quality and stay together...do not know if this is the case but am going to try one in my 08 to avoid future problems, about $50....

 
  #25  
Old 12-15-2018, 04:43 PM
LordSargon
LordSargon is offline
New Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Westchester, Plattsburgh NY
Posts: 40
Received 17 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Even if they left the plate, I don't see a reason why they can't make it out of stronger materials that don't fall apart aside from cutting production costs.

​​​​​​However, if I was to put on a tinfoil hat, I'd say they left it there as a way to sell more screamin' eagle clutch kits.
​​Think about it, $200 kit + whatever labor +whatever else it takes out should it grenade....

EDIT: I just remembered when I called up a few Harley dealers asking for a quote on the job. When I mentioned the "spring plate in the center of the pack" most of them essentially said they're not sure what I'm talking about. One just said "oh yeah that thing" but not much else.
It's funny, you Google "Sportster engine failure/engine blew" you get almost zero results. Google "Sportster clutch" your bandwidth gets wrecked
 

Last edited by LordSargon; 12-15-2018 at 08:29 PM.
  #26  
Old 12-16-2018, 06:13 AM
Kenny94945
Kenny94945 is offline
Outstanding HDF Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 2,094
Received 124 Likes on 118 Posts
Default

Post from 08XL above on aftermarket spring plate is interesting.

A co-member above answered that the plate offers a wider friction zone.

To me that implies a "trade off" to experienced riders vs. leaners.
If that is the case, then this aftermarket/ better quality plate would not help many riders here.
Eliminating the plate makes more sense.

If the spring plate does something else, perhaps this aftermarket product is a winner?

I will be looking forward to xl08 report/ comments about the aftermarket installation.
 
  #27  
Old 12-16-2018, 04:28 PM
Imold's Avatar
Imold
Imold is offline
Supporter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Frozelandia, Minnysota
Posts: 19,693
Received 1,285 Likes on 786 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by misput View Post
I replaced my clutch at 35000 mi when I did the Hammer Kit conversion and it looked like new. Could clutch failure be attributed to abuse, just asking?
From the tales told on this and other Harley forums, I don't see an arrow pointing at one particular issue. I'm more inclined to think it's a quality control issue where the plates are made. Even if hammering it aggravates the problem, failures from under 10,000 miles to no problems over 60,000, and the relatively rare times they do fail, seems to me more of a manufacturing issue than how it's used. You know a lot of those 60,000 plus and the vast majority that never have a problem got their fair share of hard use, too. Could be something as simple as not calibrating the riveting machines often enough; even a few thousandths of an inch in sqeeze could have a big effect on service life. Some of these could have been been used a couple days too long before tightening up the clearances, and spit out a few hundred plates that just aren't strong enough. Good companies redo or scrap a lot of stuff when their quality control catches issues like that, even call back what might have shipped out.
 
  #28  
Old 12-18-2018, 08:59 AM
cacomly's Avatar
cacomly
cacomly is offline
Road Captain
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Philly PA
Posts: 707
Received 177 Likes on 145 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Imold View Post
From the tales told on this and other Harley forums, I don't see an arrow pointing at one particular issue. I'm more inclined to think it's a quality control issue where the plates are made. Even if hammering it aggravates the problem, failures from under 10,000 miles to no problems over 60,000, and the relatively rare times they do fail, seems to me more of a manufacturing issue than how it's used. You know a lot of those 60,000 plus and the vast majority that never have a problem got their fair share of hard use, too. Could be something as simple as not calibrating the riveting machines often enough; even a few thousandths of an inch in sqeeze could have a big effect on service life. Some of these could have been been used a couple days too long before tightening up the clearances, and spit out a few hundred plates that just aren't strong enough. Good companies redo or scrap a lot of stuff when their quality control catches issues like that, even call back what might have shipped out.
I got 60K out of my first one and forget how many miles were on the second before I pulled it and went without. I do mainly highway miles so the clutch really gets used very little. Someone driving around town a lot would use it significantly more and get significantly more wear. And if they are abusive to the clutch it will wear even more.

However, keep in mind how many Sporties are sold each year. In 2017 they sold 50,000 Sporties (and Streets but I suspect only a small percentage are Streets). In 2010 they sold 40K Sportsters. Making the assumption that 40-50K have been sold each year since the rubber mounts first came out there are probably over 600,000 Sportsters running around. While we see many threads about the "grenade" plate or spring plate, have there really been that many people complaining? Are there 1,000 complaining? 5,000? That really isn't that many in the grand scheme of things. I suspect that is the reason why it hasn't been redesigned

As for the problem not existing for pre-rubber mounts, is it possible that they simply were not ridden as much as the rubber mounts? Yes, I know some were ridden more, but how many?
 
  #29  
Old 12-21-2018, 04:24 PM
Dayypete
Dayypete is offline
New Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hampton, Florida
Posts: 7
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by grbrown View Post
John, I used to use Dodge City H-D parts website, because they gave us details going way back to the 1940s, so we could have traced back in time to when that plate first appeared, but their website has disappeared in recent weeks. The other parts websites I know of have much fewer years available to us. Checking the H-D website there is no dealer in Dodge City called 'Dodge City H-D'. Strange!
We were there in 2018. They were in the process of changing hands, surprised to hear they are not back up in operation.
 
  #30  
Old 12-21-2018, 06:10 PM
72 Ironhead XLH
72 Ironhead XLH is offline
Senior Rider
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
Received 24 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

Dont you find it a bit ironic that an engineer would take a proven concept since day one for a spring and pressure plate design and start tweaking it with all kinds of so called improvements and end up making a bigger piece of garbage.
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: