Lithium battery
#21
04-20-2019, 12:11 PM
One other thing about lithium chargers. The chargers actually measure each bank of cells for its actual voltage and will charge each to bring them all to full level. A lead acid charger, measures current across all banks combined, sometimes giving a false indication of full charge, when in fact it may have a weak or damaged cell.
I have learned a lot about batteries lately. I recently upgraded our 5th wheel from a pair of 100ah 12v's to a set of 4-6v with 230ah each for a combined 12v ah storage of 460ah. I did this to power our 2000/4000w inverter. I later had to upgrade my 50 amp converter/charger to a progressive dynamics 4 stage 80 amp unit. The 50 would not fully charge them with my 2000w generater running for nearly 8 hrs. The most it would put into the bank at once was 35 amps. With the 80 amp progressive, I have seen 75 amps going in when the batteries are very low.
This will fully recharge the bank in 3-4 hrs. When it first starts, it goes into bulk mode and jumps to 14.2, until the battery minder shows 100% and then drops down to finish mode at 13.2. It will remain at 13.2 until I turn it off. I watch current input and when total input to the bank of batteries is less than 1 amp, I turn off the generator, and know they are fully charged. Only a good charger and battery monitor system will tell you all this. I use Victron systems. Unfortunately they do not make one for auto use, just rv and marine.
I have learned that often when we THINK the batteries are fully charged, they may, in fact, not be, and many of our float chargers do not tell the full story. From my readings, that is the main cause of early battery failure. That and fully depleting them too often.
I have learned a lot about batteries lately. I recently upgraded our 5th wheel from a pair of 100ah 12v's to a set of 4-6v with 230ah each for a combined 12v ah storage of 460ah. I did this to power our 2000/4000w inverter. I later had to upgrade my 50 amp converter/charger to a progressive dynamics 4 stage 80 amp unit. The 50 would not fully charge them with my 2000w generater running for nearly 8 hrs. The most it would put into the bank at once was 35 amps. With the 80 amp progressive, I have seen 75 amps going in when the batteries are very low.
This will fully recharge the bank in 3-4 hrs. When it first starts, it goes into bulk mode and jumps to 14.2, until the battery minder shows 100% and then drops down to finish mode at 13.2. It will remain at 13.2 until I turn it off. I watch current input and when total input to the bank of batteries is less than 1 amp, I turn off the generator, and know they are fully charged. Only a good charger and battery monitor system will tell you all this. I use Victron systems. Unfortunately they do not make one for auto use, just rv and marine.
I have learned that often when we THINK the batteries are fully charged, they may, in fact, not be, and many of our float chargers do not tell the full story. From my readings, that is the main cause of early battery failure. That and fully depleting them too often.
#22
04-20-2019, 12:14 PM
#23
04-20-2019, 12:29 PM
One other thing about lithium chargers. The chargers actually measure each bank of cells for its actual voltage and will charge each to bring them all to full level. A lead acid charger, measures current across all banks combined, sometimes giving a false indication of full charge, when in fact it may have a weak or damaged cell.
I have learned a lot about batteries lately. I recently upgraded our 5th wheel from a pair of 100ah 12v's to a set of 4-6v with 230ah each for a combined 12v ah storage of 460ah. I did this to power our 2000/4000w inverter. I later had to upgrade my 50 amp converter/charger to a progressive dynamics 4 stage 80 amp unit. The 50 would not fully charge them with my 2000w generater running for nearly 8 hrs. The most it would put into the bank at once was 35 amps. With the 80 amp progressive, I have seen 75 amps going in when the batteries are very low.
This will fully recharge the bank in 3-4 hrs. When it first starts, it goes into bulk mode and jumps to 14.2, until the battery minder shows 100% and then drops down to finish mode at 13.2. It will remain at 13.2 until I turn it off. I watch current input and when total input to the bank of batteries is less than 1 amp, I turn off the generator, and know they are fully charged. Only a good charger and battery monitor system will tell you all this. I use Victron systems. Unfortunately they do not make one for auto use, just rv and marine.
I have learned that often when we THINK the batteries are fully charged, they may, in fact, not be, and many of our float chargers do not tell the full story. From my readings, that is the main cause of early battery failure. That and fully depleting them too often.
I have learned a lot about batteries lately. I recently upgraded our 5th wheel from a pair of 100ah 12v's to a set of 4-6v with 230ah each for a combined 12v ah storage of 460ah. I did this to power our 2000/4000w inverter. I later had to upgrade my 50 amp converter/charger to a progressive dynamics 4 stage 80 amp unit. The 50 would not fully charge them with my 2000w generater running for nearly 8 hrs. The most it would put into the bank at once was 35 amps. With the 80 amp progressive, I have seen 75 amps going in when the batteries are very low.
This will fully recharge the bank in 3-4 hrs. When it first starts, it goes into bulk mode and jumps to 14.2, until the battery minder shows 100% and then drops down to finish mode at 13.2. It will remain at 13.2 until I turn it off. I watch current input and when total input to the bank of batteries is less than 1 amp, I turn off the generator, and know they are fully charged. Only a good charger and battery monitor system will tell you all this. I use Victron systems. Unfortunately they do not make one for auto use, just rv and marine.
I have learned that often when we THINK the batteries are fully charged, they may, in fact, not be, and many of our float chargers do not tell the full story. From my readings, that is the main cause of early battery failure. That and fully depleting them too often.
#24
04-20-2019, 01:20 PM
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Frozelandia, Minnysota
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I've used this method successfully on lead acid batteries, too, same situation, somewhere around 7V my tenders won't try to charge them, pump them up to 9V off another battery, charged and worked like normal. As long as they don't charge from 9V to 12.6 in a few seconds, those are no good, will lose the charge just as fast under load.
#25
04-20-2019, 10:05 PM
#26
04-21-2019, 04:09 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
One other thing about lithium chargers. The chargers actually measure each bank of cells for its actual voltage and will charge each to bring them all to full level.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-...___store=en_us
In order to get all the cells "balanced" and it is the same for lead acid batteries when not using the balance connector they need to be charged at a very low current level typically at 1/15 of the batteries capacity. For a 10Ah battery that would be 670mA.
#27
04-21-2019, 04:15 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
"Waking up" a battery by switching something on so the battery is supplying current when it is cold is actually what destroys lithium batteries quicker than anything else. This is a chemical reaction. It is better but no one has the time or will to do it is to warm it with a hair dryer or some other heater to bring it to around 15° to 20°C before pulling current from it.
Last edited by Andy from Sandy; 04-21-2019 at 04:58 AM.
#28
04-21-2019, 10:06 AM
#29
04-21-2019, 02:44 PM
HDF Community Team
Doesn't 14V or so go to the battery when engine running? So, that's above 13.7 or 13.2 so should be no problem with stock engine charging system. I've had no issues over 4 years so I assume the battery is being taken care of just fine. I also ride at least 30 minutes whenever I go out. Oil up to temp and battery has plenty time for charging.
John
John
#30
04-21-2019, 03:12 PM
Road Master
I wonder if this is a deliberate thing with the industry to sell more batteries. Just because a charger/tender says it's dead, doesn't mean it is, especially with a Lithium. If you still have the battery, hook it up in parallel with a fully charged 12V battery (wet or agm might be better than another Li, drain the full Li enough, could have two "won't charge" batteries). When the low Li gets over 11V (might have to recharge the fuller battery again to get there) then put it back on the charger and finish it.
I've used this method successfully on lead acid batteries, too, same situation, somewhere around 7V my tenders won't try to charge them, pump them up to 9V off another battery, charged and worked like normal. As long as they don't charge from 9V to 12.6 in a few seconds, those are no good, will lose the charge just as fast under load.
I've used this method successfully on lead acid batteries, too, same situation, somewhere around 7V my tenders won't try to charge them, pump them up to 9V off another battery, charged and worked like normal. As long as they don't charge from 9V to 12.6 in a few seconds, those are no good, will lose the charge just as fast under load.