So I finished my Stage V tire shredder upgrade with the addition of Cyclerama CR575 Cams and had the bike dyno tuned (sort of) at 106HP & 121TQ. I have decided to ask the forum experts for a couple more opinions...


The dyno chart is a little disappointing to me. I am happy with the torque numbers, but I just don't feel like much time or effort was put into tuning the bike and that I am probably leaving hp and tq on the table. I say this because the Harley Dealer installed a precanned tune for a SE585 cam (not the cyclerama that I have) and ran the first pull. According to the dyno results they adjusted for approximately 17 minutes and then made a final pull with +5hp and +5tq. I just don't know if anyone can fully dyno tune anything in 17 minutes or with just a couple dyno pulls?

Am I wrong in this thinking, or do I need to take the bike to a different tuner and have them spend considerably more time tuning and making multiple pulls????

How many pulls does it typically take to fully dyno tune a bike that has been modified like this (big bore, new TB, new cam, new injectors etc)?


My second question is, what components if any, do you think may be limiting the potential of this build. Here is what I'm using for parts:



SE Super Tuner Pro (Orange One)
Cyclerama CR575 Cam

http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/screamin-eagle-110ci-stage-v-tire-shredder-kit


S&S Headpipe: http://www.dragspecialties.com/products/?productId=316478&partNumber=18020286


Freedom Performance Eagle 4” Exhaust: http://www.directcycleparts.com/exhaust-freedom-performance-touring-eagle-slip-freedom-performance-eagle-slip-chrome-black-touring-p-35640.html


Screaming Eagle Elite Heavy Breather: http://www.harley-davidson.com/store/heavy-breather-elite-performance-air-cleaner-kit


I have considered changing the exhaust to something like a D&D Fatcat and considered having the heads reworked further by hillside cycles, but I would like to get peoples opinion on whether either of these changes will benefit the build enough to justify the cost involved??


Thanks,


dakota

 

My opinion is that you need to find another tuner. I'd even want a refund on the wasted money for a 16 minute tune. There is absolutely no way to cover all the parameters in that short amount of time. Looks like he's targeting 14:1 for WOT which is way too lean. He certainly did nothing to the part throttle map in 16 minutes!
To answer your initial question, it should take 2-6 hours and 25-80 pulls depending on starting map and tuning technique.
As far as how to improve the components, normally if power is to be found, it's in the exhaust. I have no experience with the S&S headpipe with the Freedom exhaust but if after a proper tune the power still appears low, that might be a good place to start. JMHO.

 

Thanks for taking time to reply. I don't have any knowledge when it comes to dyno tuning a Harley, but I just couldn't see how a canned map and 1 extra pull in 16 or 17 minutes time could get the job done. In my mind I was thinking it has to take a number of runs and a lot of little adjustments, like you mentioned above. In fact the couple shops I talked with all said about 3-4 hours for dyno tuning.


Thank you for confirming what I suspected. I will move on and find a tuner willing to do a much more complete tuning job. You don't happen to do dyno tuning in the Midwest do you???


dakota

 

Not defending the dyno operator, but remember you are looking at a snapshot of 1 cylinder at WOT; unless you witnessed the event in person, you don't really know how much time was spent.

 

Screaming eagle tuner software has no provision for anything other than screaming eagle cams on base maps. He had to pick the map he felt was closest for a base map. As far as numbers don't get caught up in them Most of the numbers you see published will be the unusually high ones not the average or the below average ones so don't think you are gonna get what you have seen out there. The afr line doesn't look too terrible on that chart but I am no expert heck I'm not even a novice tuner, LOL

 

I did not witness the dyno tune in person, but my stomach acid is from the fact that the initial pull with canned map occurred at 10:51AM and the final pull after adjustments occurred at 11:07AM. I just cant believe that they really adjusted every parameter and pulled all the potential out of the bike in 16 minutes of tuning? I am no expert, so I could be wrong... but that's why I am asking for peoples opinion. It's not even about the $300 spent. I have spent a bunch of money building the bike up to this point and just don't want some rookie spending 16 minutes and leaving potential hp and tq on the table.

 

You might check for a tuner here-- https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=1976040#
Just because they're listed doesn't mean they're good--Please do your homework before choosing a tuner.

 

Working from a canned map for that kit I would say he did the initial pull made a few adjustments and got the numbers he was expecting.
I'm not defending the guy but I would take into consideration that this may have not been the first engine setup he's done like that.

If you give it some thought the tuner may have already have built a canned map for your setup except with a SE exhaust, hence the minor adjustments.

If you look at the numbers in your tune and compare it to the expected numbers of the shredder kit you're putting out a lot more power with your cam.

 

My point is that is only showing 1 cylinder @ 1 throttle position, two times. WOT runs typically take less than 10 seconds. He may have spent 4 hours doing every other throttle position, on both cylinders, and only showed you two runs out of a hundred.

 

Ok, so many have said that I should get the bike dyno tuned correctly and others have said that maybe there was a lot more tuning than I am seeing. I still have doubts because the fact that the first pull with precanned map was 10:51AM and the final pull was 11:07AM.

So here is my questions to the tuners that have worked with Screaming Eagle Super Tuner Pro (orange one):

If I take this to another tuner and they hook up the SE Tuner will they be able to see what tables and what parameters have been modified? Will this more experienced tuner be able to tell me if I just got a quickie tune versus a detailed dyno tune where many different tables and values where adjusted?

Thanks,

dakota