Gotcha Cooky, I'm just looking to see if when it's hooked up I can gather data in areas that I can't with the narrow bands, have no wish to leave it in place running the show after that except for feedingfee AFR gauge perhaps.

 

The strategy in the current EFI speed density system can handle temp, altitude, barometric pressure, and throttle position/ engine load open loop. They handle humidity and overall changes in air quality on the leaner AFRs in closed loop. Since WOT can tolerate +- 1/2 point afr changes without issues and humidity / air quality have lesser effects, the system still works pretty well.

While I like and use full time closed loop systems, they still can have issues when running at lower rpms/load ranges.

 

That is a system that was made to run 100% closed loop from the beginning. A bit different than a system that wasn't designed to do that and now we are hoping it will. Acceleration tables doesn't kick Tmax out of closed loop. PE mode doesn't kick Tmax out of closed loop feed back. The Delphi system is designed to run in closed loop feed back during steady state, and never in a transition state. Do these tuning units go deep enough into the code to address this?

 

That is my understanding too.
Hilly , Mario was telling me before this news that it would work and has had it running on a Sporty with the SEPST(RACE).

 

Gotcha but I think what Max is saying is very true too ,it feels like my bike wants to stay in closed loop a little too much for my liking man.
Wondering if that's the greatest benefit of the Auto tune module it'll go hey let's get in to open loop when you're throttling on as it's a wide bodied dedicated unit, maybe who know right until one of us ponies up.
I will get the Auto tune module when I know more as I'm definitely going stage 1 when a set of V&H TWIN SLASH 3-INCH SLIP-ONS hit Australia , been told I will have full warranty with these slip ons and a SE extreme breather with a tune from the SEPST(race) by HD Australia ,and after that I might go a Stage 2 just to see what the lifters look like and swap them out anyways.

 

The Tmax does not have have anything like an acceleration table. They run something sort of close too the delphi long term filtering to set fueling but instead of using a small table say 4 x 4 for long term fuel trims, they have it for all individual cells. As far as I can tell the use a more traditional loop filter (engineering type loop filter) instead of the collecting error and adjusting the tables when the error gets above some value. This means that they only feed back loop error in the smallest amount. This type of filter will will reduce transient condition feed back and allow steady state to adjust quickly.

This is my understanding as the Tmax guys don't like too discuss the details of their closed loop system..

The delphi system when running closed loop tries to eliminate AFR errors using a higher gain and faster response. This really only works well when the running conditions are stable. They do this to minimize fueling errors and emissions. Tmax does not have to worry about that as much.. I'm not sure how their emission compliant system works other than that they may limit the AFR tables.

 

I hear you Jason, just want to see if the wideband unit can record data that I can't get with the narrow bands, it may well be a pointless exercise, time will tell.

 

 

Because it is factory loaded with an EPA compliant tuning table, and the narrow band O2 sensors can only react when the burnt fuel/ air mixture is in it working range parameters. The Auto-Tune Module uses wideband O2 sensors, but still needs a base tune to adjust to, they can just read a much greater variable from base and still adjust the mixture closer to the tuned center.

 

The self adjustable bit is closed-loop keeping the AFR (EPA or otherwise) on target. It is there to take care of environmental changes like altitude and temperature, and an odd tank of dodgy fuel.

It can adjust plus and minus whatever it is capable of, the point of tuning is primarily to get the "detailed" i.e. more cells VE tables in the centre of that plus and minus position which allows the system maximum ability to react to changes.

Changes are stored in a much less detailed AFF table so if you don't tune it you end up relying more heavily on a less than optimum adjustments table that is no where near as good as a properly optimised VE table.

Spark auto adjustment is simply if the engine knocks it retards the timing a bunch until it stops. Which is more of a safety feature than an "autotuning" feature.

Problem with mufflers is there are many different types, sizes, and baffles. These can all flow significantly different to each other that while the auto fuel adjustment may be able to handle, could put the auto adjust ability at one end of the available range.

Then there is the computational power and response time to apply constant (possibly large) adjustments.

So basically properly tuned is best

(I think that's how it goes, if you can fine Steve Cole's how EFI thread works )