New to the board and thx for the add
My question ... has anyone run a SE tuner on a stock new engine just to see how lean the standard map was and has anyone made adjustments ( read made a mixture adjustment) because of the lean figures they've come up with and what was the end result.
From what I've read on the net the new bikes run lean for EPA emissions but that in turn makes them run hotter than nessesary
Colin

 

Welcome aboard.
I have no doubt that a good tune will help a stock set up run better and cooler. I've read about that on this forum, but not sure who it was. Somebody here may have done that, hope they will chime in.

 

The current SE Street tuner does not allow changes to the fuel table. It will adjust the VE tables.The SE Pro Super Tuner does but HD can't sell it in the US anymore.

Running a Power Vision auto tune with stock narrow band sensors on my stock motor (stock pipes and air cleaner) there has been more adjustment to leaner than to richer.
My short term (CLI) and long term (AFF) fuel trim values normally show even more fuel is being pulled. <100% and my O2 sensors show higher than .450 mv most of the time.

A stock bike when run above about 80% throttle runs rich anyway. The AFR there is max rich for gasoline, 12.5 to 1, and the ECU runs in open loop ignoring the O2 sensors. Above 5000 rpms at light throttle the AFR is 13.0 to 1.

The 2014+ Sportsters have changed to Lambda AFR and operate slightly richer 14.4 to 1 compared the earlier 2007-2013 running at 14.6.


My stock bike does run better after several auto tune sessions. I have not changed the AFR table at all. I have changed the Closed loop bias table to a leaner setting than stock. I should be closer to 14.7 AFR in my cruise range looking at the log files in Mega Log Viewer.

 

Excellent info my friend.
Thanks a lot Colin

 

I took a look at the SE Pro Super Tuner 2012 XR1200X "Race" tune and was surprised to see it too had AFR in the 14.6 to 1 setting from 1000 to 3000 rpms. The low MAP range it did go a little richer. It also had most of the high MAP ranges set to 12.5 though a few did drop to 12.0.

The tune didn't list any specific hardware other than "race".
AFR Race
MAP
RPM 20 30 35 40 50 60 70 75 80 90 100
750 14.5 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.0 14.0 13.5 12.0 12.0
1000 14.5 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.2 14.0 13.5 12.5 12.5
1250 14.5 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.0 13.5 12.5 12.5
1500 14.0 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.0 13.5 12.5 12.5
1750 14.0 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.0 13.5 12.5 12.5
2000 14.0 14.0 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.0 13.5 12.5 12.5
2250 14.0 14.0 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.0 13.5 12.5 12.5
2500 14.0 14.0 14.5 14.5 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.0 13.5 12.5 12.5
2750 13.8 14.0 14.5 14.5 14.6 14.6 14.6 14.0 13.5 12.5 12.5
3000 13.5 14.0 14.5 14.5 14.5 14.5 14.6 14.0 13.5 12.5 12.5
3500 13.5 14.0 14.5 14.5 14.5 14.5 14.5 14.0 13.5 12.5 12.5
4000 13.5 14.0 14.0 14.5 14.5 14.5 14.5 14.0 13.5 12.5 12.5
4500 13.5 14.0 14.0 14.5 14.5 14.5 14.5 13.8 13.5 12.5 12.5
5000 13.0 13.5 13.8 13.8 13.8 13.8 13.8 13.5 13.5 12.5 12.5
5500 12.5 13.0 13.0 13.5 13.5 13.5 13.5 13.5 13.5 12.5 12.5
6000 12.0 12.5 12.5 13.0 13.0 13.0 13.0 13.0 13.0 12.5 12.5
6500 12.0 12.0 12.0 12.5 12.5 12.5 12.5 12.5 12.5 12.5 12.0

I found the ignition timing interesting, here is the front timing, many cells have less advance than my stock 2013 XL1200c-

XR1200X Race tune ignition timing front
+------+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+-----+
| RPM | 20 | 30 | 40 | 50 | 60 | 65 | 70 | 80 | 90 | 100 |
+------+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+-----+
| 1000 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 17 | 13 | 13 | 15 | 15 | 15 |
| 1250 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 17 | 13 | 13 | 15 | 15 | 15 |
| 1500 | 22 | 22 | 22 | 22 | 17 | 14 | 15 | 15 | 15 | 15 |
| 1750 | 25 | 25 | 25 | 25 | 19 | 17 | 15 | 15 | 15 | 15 |
| 2000 | 27 | 27 | 27 | 27 | 25 | 24 | 20 | 19 | 17 | 16 |
| 2250 | 27 | 27 | 27 | 27 | 26 | 28 | 25 | 23 | 19 | 19 |
| 2500 | 28 | 28 | 28 | 28 | 27 | 29 | 26 | 25 | 20 | 23 |
| 3000 | 28 | 28 | 28 | 29 | 32 | 33 | 30 | 28 | 22 | 24 |
| 3500 | 30 | 30 | 30 | 32 | 34 | 32 | 30 | 28 | 25 | 21 |
| 4000 | 32 | 32 | 33 | 35 | 36 | 35 | 32 | 29 | 27 | 25 |
| 4500 | 34 | 35 | 35 | 38 | 38 | 36 | 33 | 32 | 29 | 25 |
| 5000 | 35 | 35 | 36 | 42 | 39 | 39 | 37 | 33 | 30 | 26 |
| 5500 | 35 | 35 | 38 | 45 | 41 | 40 | 40 | 36 | 32 | 29 |
| 6000 | 35 | 35 | 40 | 45 | 43 | 40 | 38 | 35 | 32 | 30 |
| 6500 | 35 | 35 | 40 | 45 | 43 | 41 | 39 | 37 | 34 | 33 |
| 7000 | 35 | 35 | 40 | 45 | 44 | 41 | 40 | 37 | 34 | 33 |
| 7500 | 35 | 35 | 40 | 45 | 44 | 41 | 39 | 37 | 34 | 33 |
+------+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+-----+

2013 XL1200 C stock tune ignition timing front -
MAP
+------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+--------+
| RPM | 20.00 | 30.00 | 40.00 | 50.00 | 60.00 | 70.00 | 80.00 | 90.00 | 100.00 |
+------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+--------+
| 1000 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 3.00 | 0.00 |
| 1250 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 5.00 | 0.00 |
| 1500 | 12.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 5.00 | 2.75 |
| 1750 | 12.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 12.00 | 13.00 | 13.25 | 8.25 | 6.75 |
| 2000 | 14.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 10.00 | 16.50 | 19.25 | 18.00 | 13.00 | 10.75 |
| 2250 | 14.00 | 12.00 | 12.00 | 14.50 | 19.75 | 24.00 | 23.25 | 17.50 | 15.00 |
| 2500 | 14.00 | 14.00 | 14.00 | 19.00 | 22.75 | 28.00 | 28.00 | 22.75 | 17.50 |
| 3000 | 14.00 | 14.00 | 18.50 | 27.25 | 31.50 | 34.50 | 32.50 | 26.00 | 21.25 |
| 3500 | 14.00 | 14.00 | 24.00 | 33.00 | 35.75 | 36.00 | 34.00 | 29.00 | 25.00 |
| 4000 | 14.00 | 14.00 | 29.25 | 37.50 | 38.00 | 38.00 | 36.00 | 30.50 | 28.00 |
| 4500 | 14.00 | 14.00 | 34.50 | 41.00 | 40.00 | 38.50 | 37.00 | 33.00 | 30.50 |
| 5000 | 14.00 | 14.00 | 39.00 | 45.00 | 40.50 | 39.00 | 37.00 | 34.00 | 31.50 |
| 5500 | 14.00 | 14.00 | 40.00 | 45.00 | 43.50 | 40.50 | 38.00 | 36.50 | 33.75 |
| 6000 | 14.00 | 14.00 | 40.00 | 45.00 | 45.00 | 45.00 | 44.50 | 41.50 | 35.75 |
| 6500 | 14.00 | 14.00 | 40.00 | 45.00 | 45.00 | 43.75 | 44.00 | 41.50 | 41.00 |
| 7000 | 14.00 | 14.00 | 40.00 | 45.00 | 45.00 | 45.00 | 44.00 | 42.00 | 41.00 |
| 7500 | 14.00 | 14.00 | 40.00 | 40.00 | 40.00 | 40.00 | 44.00 | 42.00 | 41.00 |
+------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+--------+

 

Well I tried the HD 2012 XR1200X race tune ignition timing on my stock XL1200C.
I took my last PowerVision Auto tune file and just changed the Front/Rear ignition timing tables (I did delete the 65 map column since it wasn't in my stock tables and change the F/R 1000/1250rpm 100/90 map areas to match my stock table for easy starting), saved it and flashed it to my ECU.

Took a quick ride last night watching the ET, seemed to run better at the lower rpms. No knocking.

Took a much longer ride today, even though it was between 70-80F I don't think my ET ever went over 360 F. I was thinking the temp might go up with the advanced spark at low rpms/map but it actually seemed to run cooler than a ride last weekend when it was about 10 F cooler. I rode about 170 miles, some interstate, mostly state highways.

I averaged 60 mpg, my previous best had been about 54 mpg. I think I'll keep the new timing tables.

 

Just throwing it out there does anyone know if the power vision tuner has a map for a stock 1200 ? I'd like to refine what I have before slip-ons and airflow
Im trying to play catch up to the not so much tuning mods just want the bike to run clean and breathe like it should
Colin

 

When the PowerVision marries itself to your ECM it will save a copy of your current tune.

 

Yeah, they have way too much of the map in closed loop control. Only the cruise areas should be that high and running that lean. I used my SE Pro Tuner on my stock bike to adjust the accel areas to get better response and cool the engine more when taxing it. Also adjusted the idle. Increased enleanment to prevent popping and increased timing to get some more HP. When I couldn't do more I started staging.

 

Thats good news so if all fails I can re flash back to the stock map excellent
How can I know what exhausts and air cleaners the power vision supports so as I can make a exhaust air cleaner purchase of what is supported on their hardware list
I was thinking of going with a set of rush 1.75 slip-ons and a SE stage 1 air cleaner using a can map to start then auto tune from there

Thanks for your help in advance
Colin