So I kept my Power Vision from the old bike and hooked it up to the new 114 Softail just to see what some logs looked like. (I've not re-licensed it yet because I wasn't planning touching it until it is out of warranty).

While CLI/AFF could maybe be better it doesn't look too bad, but what I did notice was there is 2.75 degrees of knock on both cylinders (that IS reducing advance) at pretty much anything above 55 kpa

Just wondering if anyone else noticed?

Anything to do with the different fuel we get over here in the UK compared to the US?

 

Are you running 98 or 95 RON gasoline?

Does your gas also have ethanol added?

US 91 octane is about equal to your 95 RON.
US 93 octane is about the same as your 98 RON.

"Premium" or "Super unleaded" gasoline in US (10% ethanol blend) RON 97 MON 87-88 US AKI 92-93
"Shell V-Power Nitro+ 99" "Tesco Momentum 99" In the United Kingdom RON 99 MON 87 US AKI 93

 

I run our regular which is 95 RON and MAY be up to 5% ethanol (I think?)

 

I like the older detection and strategy better.

 

Do you get the same timing retard with the Shell 99 RON?

It would be interesting to see if there is any difference.

 

Gordon

So did you call it a day with your old bike?

To use a MoCo line, they all do that! That is how the new code it setup for the M8 bikes. You will have to give it time to learn what it needs over the first 1000 - 1500 miles of operation.

 

Hi Steve, I did call it a day, but in a good way.
I was stupid ...I was chasing a ghost ...I test rode a 114 and first thought was not about the 114 but how well mine WAS actually running.

More learning eh, oh dear, that sounds as if there will be more hidden tables that people are going to be convinced they will need to know about (joke)
Seriously tho, I know V&H used to say of their FP3 to run a tank or two of petrol through before worrying if the tune was right or wrong - I always thought that was just to let the AFF try to fill in any holes, whereas TTS and DJ just got on and mapped the VE from the get go. This learning you mention, is this something you tuners have seen before, or something new in the M8 code?

Guilty btw, she only has 300 miles on the clock ...winter is starting to set in up here

If there is any more riding left before she goes away I may try a run on 98/99 just to see what it thinks of that.

 

The M8's run all new code and calibrations. Allowing the fuel system to learn in is completely different then the Spark system. Spark knock can and will cause engine damage over time, Fuel not so much unless its way out in left field. HD has changed the way they start the system out with the M8's.
You have two choices when you think about it, when it comes to spark knock. Start out with a calibration that is done on just a few engines and allow it to learn from the knock sensor circuit on all the production tolerances in the field or start out with the knock retard already removed and allow it to learn by slowly adding spark back in. Both ways work but are done differently and some feel one way is safer than the other.

 

With knock present and needing to be learnt out, I wonder if that means we should be a little more gentle running these things in?

Will this present any change in the way you tuner types approach a job, or presumably have bike and dyno - will just tune it in properly, same as always?

 

From my tuning experience with the M8 so far it seems there will be some learning before the knock system will be fine tuned.
As found with the previous ION system, we dealt with false knock. I believe we are experiencing false knock with the current, M8 system as well.
Bob