Dyno tuning a bike with Target Tune installed
 

What are the implication? How is the process different? Curious about what one would need to be aware of if one were to seek out a pro to do a tune on a bike configured with TT.

One thing I wonder about right off the bat, I've read some say that they tune with both NB's and WB's. Having TT installed might pose a problem if you wanted to use both. No?

Just read in another post, that an individual was told by a pro that there are issues (known to DJ) with dyno'ing a bike with TT installed. Apparently the customer was told that it was better to remove the TT and do the tune with the NB's etc. Curiosity there... So the tune would have to be done on a non-TT enabled tune file. No? Seems problematic if the customer wants to go back to using TT after the dyno work has been done. Anybody know anything about this issue? Does it exist?

Target tune is a closed loop feedback system that uses wide o2's. That is all it is. In order to use this or any closed loop system. The VE's have to be mapped correctly first. This mapping is done to zero out the trims. Because this system of wide band o2 feedback was created as a developer tool. It isn't used to map VE's. So, switching from a TT cal to a regular cal is needed for mapping. Then once that is all done. Then you put it back to a TT cal. What is the advantage of a wb closed loop feed back system over the stock nb closed loop system? I can't say, but the advantage of nb o2's is plenty. They are more accurate. They are faster at responding. They allow long term fuel trims and the sensor last a lot longer. There is a reason the auto world gave up on trying to use 4.2's as a closed loop feed back system.

Should have thought of this... If I was thinking... Apparently I was too preoccupied with being a dumbass.

There's a question though... Does TT use adaptive learning (AFF/AFV) - long term trims? I've noted various things that suggest it does in DJ's literature. For example... From the Target Tune FAQ page...

http://blogs.dynojet.com/index.php/2...get-tune-faqs/

From DJ's Target Tune web page...

http://www.dynojet.com/powervision/p...#pvAccessories

Target Tune is very useful and easy to use on the dyno and it does not require non-TT tunes. For best info you are welcome to contact me directly at 920-423-3309

Just when you think you've got it all figured out then... pow!

:icon_mrgreen:

Rereading. I am wrong about changing cals from TT to non TT.


On the AFF:


Do the Adaptive Fuel Factors get committed to my calibration?

• No, however they are used by the ECM to calculate the final amount of fuel to be delivered at a certain operating condition. The AFF values are used by the ECM until you clear them via the Power Vision function “Reset Fuel Trim”. These values are effectively applied to the base VE tables in your calibration by the ECM, however they are NOT committed to the calibration itself. To properly “fix” your calibration, you would need to use the Autotune process and select the proper mode (“Dynojet Target Tuner Wideband Kit”).

This means that no learning is retained. That is why it is so important to map your VE's and zero your trims before running TT.

Long term adaptive trims (AFF) are indeed stored (as long as adaptive learning is enabled in the calibration), the statement above refers to the trims being commited to the calibration itself. AFF trim is not part of the calibration. it a multiplier that is stored in the config block section of memory. Also note that trims are automatically reset when the TT-Auto Tune application is enabled.

The above is wrong. If that was so. Why couldn't you just download a starter cal. Enable TT, ride and let short term and long term trim it all in? 40 and 30% change would be able to bring it in, but Dynojet recommends what it does.


And before the BS about how Jamie worked in the code and did this and that. Remember he has already been called out on the line of BS. By the VIP of Dynojet and a couple of people that actual did work with the code.

Maybe its poorly worded... But I read it to say that the AFF's are not applied directly to (they do not change) the VE tables (AKA. the calibration). The AFF's are factored (used) with the VE tables to calculate fuel delivery. I don't read that to say that adaptive fueling is disabled/no learning is retained.

That's what it seems to be saying to me anyway...

You can do this, but as a dyno tuner you should know that having short term/long term multiplers running at large delta's is not the same as having VE properly established. To get fuel delivery as accurate as possible you want to get VE itself as close as possible so closed loop (both short term/long term) has to do the least amount of work. If VE is not that close and needs to be sync'd that is what the TT-Auto Tune application does, this app operates in an open loop state.

I would really like to get a product in your hands so you can see what it does or does not do first hand, and every statement should not merit an attack or condescending response. If you want help on how these products work I have offered several times to show you.

For reference I have attached a customer supplied log from a Target Tune equipped bike, you can open this log in Dynojet Power Core or other 3rd party software. If you refer to CLI (short term fuel trim) and AFF (long term fuel trim) you can see that they are running and active, they are for the most averaging in the area of +/- 5% for both of them with a few areas a bit more. You can also note the running AF in the log from the widebands (WBO2 front & rear) as well as the AF targets.