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  #21  
Old 03-19-2019, 06:44 PM
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Make sure you understand countersteering, or you'll be fighting the bike all the way through turns at road speeds. Smoothness in stopping takes some practice, just getting used to the brakes.

Courses are helpful, and nobody says you have to stop after just one.
 
  #22  
Old 03-25-2019, 07:15 AM
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To the original poster....not sure you will ever see this, but.....
Lots of great information here. I really don't understand how people think when the get their first bike. They get what they want, no experience, no training, no nothing. Get a big bike and can't understand why they have this problem or that problem. I always recommend that you start small.... something light and manageable. A dirt bike is a great way to start. Ride in the dirt, when you fall, try to understand what happened to make you fall. Get used to the controls. Get used to how a bike operates. You may not need to ride it a lot.... it may take a couple months, or a year to gain some experience and confidence. But above all....take the MSF riders class. I re-took the experienced riders course when I got back into bikes after being away for several years. Learn to look up the road. Do not look down except to "glance" at what may be in front of you. Believe it or not, you will go where you look. If you go through a corner or turn, look up the road, You will go where you look. If you look at that rock in the road, you will hit it. This applies to driving cars as well. Try it, use it when you drive.
I would not worry about countersteering too much at first. Just understand that you will be doing several things unconsciously at first....just be aware of this and understand and learn what you are doing. Be aware it is not if you fall down or crash, it is WHEN will you fall down or crash. It will happen. Hopefully it will be slow/low speed or stopped. I went with a group of riders on a small weekend trip. My buddy and I agreed one of us will lead and the other will trail. These guys had very little experience. I was tail gunning and the guy in front of me kept staring at his front wheel going around a big sweeping curve. I thought this is not good....then he put his left foot down like he was gonna flat track. I knew then he wes gonna crash. And he did. Broke some ribs, scrapped up his bike, and ended his weekend. You need to look ahead. Look where you want to go!
Take all this advice and use it best you can. But by all means I strongly recommend start smaller, take the courses, and practice. It's not as easy as you might think.
 
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  #23  
Old 03-25-2019, 07:26 AM
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Two things and I'm not being mean, you need a smaller bike to get your game back in order jumping cold straight to a land barge isn't going to end well in your situation. Secondly may be riding just isn't in the stars for you fear will hurt or kill you, happens partner. Good luck.
 
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  #24  
Old 03-31-2019, 02:20 PM
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I'm new to the forum and most of what needs to be said has been said already. I was a traffic cop for many years and motorcycle cop for a short time until I got rubbed out off duty, in a car crash leaving me with some back injuries that kept me from doing the motorcycle thing for a very long time.

Obviously, a good training course is the number one thing but that really only buys you a ticket to ride, (as they say). After that hurdle, the rest is practice, practice, practice and maybe watching youtube when you can't practice. Lots of info there...some good, some not so good. You'll soon be able to distinguish between the two. Watch everything from big bikes to Isle of Mann TT. There's a lot of good stuff there.

Think of your concerns for going over 45mph not as a weakness, but as an intelligent decision based upon how confident you feel. With experience comes confidence. Slow is smooth. Smooth becomes fast.

Repetition creates a calm demeanor and confidence. All through high school, I rode a Honda CB360. I rode all year round (this was Ohio, by the way) and I rode in all kinds of weather including riding on ice. I had crash bars front and rear (Dad wisely insisted on that) and during winter months I laid that bike down at least once a month because of ice, not because other cars were involved. Sounds horrible but it was a great learning experience because, after a while, even laying the bike down became one of those things where you just learn to relax and go with it. My point here has nothing whatever to do with crashing but everything to do with how repetition creates a calm demeanor and confidence. Calm demeanor and confidence allows you to focus on handling the motorcycle, or in my particular case, learning how to relax when I knew I was going over and would soon be bobsledding along behind my Honda. So.... go with 45mph for now and soon it'll be 55mph and so on.

Brilliance in the basics. Being a motor cop (for however short a period) I can tell you that, if you can handle your scooter at low speeds, that's about 75% of what you need to know to be a good rider. Why? Because when those big wheels get rolling, they act like giant gyroscopes and that bike is going to want to stand up straight so, riding then becomes rather effortless. Then, it becomes mastery of throttle control and the correct application of brakes. Some very sophisticated motorcycles even take care of that for you! But if you want to be good at slow speeds, find a big, empty parking lot and just work on slow speed straight line repetitions. How slow can you go? If you can stay upright at 2-4mph, especially on a heavy bike, pat yourself on the back then move on to slow speed turns.

What does velocity (speed) mean to a rider? I also have a sport bike and I can tell you that at 140mph you'd think the wheels were set, straight up, in concrete and one has to really haul the bike over to make the curves. At slower speeds, when your wheels (think-gyros) slow down you have to take more control of the handlebars because the energy is no longer available to make them stand up on their own. Where the wheels go, so goes the motorcycle. At super slow speeds, maneuvering is accomplished by adding some throttle to get those wheels turning (again, gyros!) and small applications of brake to slow them and sometimes, wiggling those handlebars (I'm not even going to attempt to describe how that works) to help keep the bike vertical even at a dead stop.

Front and rear brakes. Think of the rear brake as a parachute. The motorcycle kind of hangs from the rear brake upon its application. A bit like throwing out an anchor, eh? This serves to slow the motorcycle but more importantly, it keeps the motorcycle straight just as long as there is not so much braking going on that it breaks (loses) traction. Front brake does a lot of braking work because there is a dynamic weight shift forward as brakes are applied. And so, there must be a balance between the two; a balance that changes depending upon conditions. Many (but not all) emergency braking situations can be avoided by thinking and looking ahead.

What does the rake of the front forks mean to a motorcyclist? Sit in a chair and extend your leg so that your heel rests on the floor, way out away from you. Relax your leg. Your foot wants to roll over doesn't it. In this case, think of your leg as the front forks on the Easy Rider chopper. Like your leg, at slow speeds, that front wheel also wants to lay over. Now, while seated, bring your leg in, bent at the knee. In this configuration, your foot doesn't want to lay over nearly as much. In this way, your leg is set up much like the forks on a sport bike, with very little rake. At slow speeds on a motorcycle with very little rake on the forks, the wheel really doesn't want to lay over on its own. What does all this mean? Well, depending upon how your motorcycle is set up, when turning at slower speeds, you may have to make far more (or far less) control of those handlebars because that front wheel is going to behave according to the rake of those front forks. You don't need to know the mathematical formula. All you need to know is what to expect and how to compensate for it.

From the above, we know that in slow speed maneuvering turn left to go left and right to go right. But when those gyros get turning, exerting all that energy on the rest of the motorcycle and stabilizing it so that it wants to stand straight up, a very specific change in our method of steering happens and this is where a great many people simply cannot 'get it'. At the speed at which the motorcycle now want's to stand up on its own we change our method of steering to 'push left to go left' and 'push right to go right'. Gentle inputs of pressure to the handlebars causes a change in the relationship between the front and the rear of the motorcycle creating a dynamic that causes the motorcycle to 'turn'.

This has been a lot of info and by now, I'd imagine your eyes are beginning to glaze over so I'm going to give you some less technical advice that may be the most important thing I can share with you.

1. Adopt the mindset that you are invisible and that everyone is trying to kill you while you are riding on your motorcycle. Watch other motorists and assume they will do the most inconsiderate, idiotic thing imaginable. You won't be disappointed.

2. Ride like a mouse rather than like a lion. The mouse plays defense. The lion plays offense. I don't care how big and bad your bike is, you're still the littlest thing out there and you cannot change that. There are old riders and there are bold riders but there are no old, bold riders. Ride like a mouse.

3. The strength of your motorcycle is that it can accelerate and decelerate very quickly and under certain circumstances maneuver quicker and more efficiently than automobiles. Use that to your advantage. Look for spaces in traffic where you are not boxed in or encroached upon by other motorists. Use the strengths of your motorcycle to find and settle into 'quiet spaces' in traffic.

4. Know what is all around you, in 360 degrees. All motor vehicles are designed, primarily, to go forward. Mirrors are an afterthought and are often lacking. So, the best way to know what is around you is to travel at a speed ever so lightly greater than the cars around you. If you are the guy who is always going a little bit faster, that means that most of the action is going to take place out front and ahead of you where you can see it. Yes, there will always be the goofball who comes right up on your back bumper and there is not much to be done about that except getting out of his way, like a gentleman, when it is safe for you to do so..

5. While you are a new rider, stay off the freeways and busy roads. Do your riding where there is less traffic and speeds are slower. There, you can build up your skills and create that calm and confident demeanor we talked about. Here is a good time and place to learn about road position (divide each lane into thirds...left middle and right) and how it can benefit you.

6. Avoid lane splitting. I never recommend it but I will acknowledge there may be good reasons to do it depending upon your circumstance (such as being caught in stopped traffic in the Texas heat with an air-cooled motorcycle). When you are lane splitting, you are relying solely upon the driving skill, good will and forbearance of your fellow motorists; all of which are things that are completely out of your control and lack of control is precisely why I do not recommend it, especially in this day and age when people seem to be angry about everything and are inclined to take their anger out on others. I prefer having at least some control of what is going on around me while riding.

So there you have it (well, at least some of it). I wish you the very best.

Cheers,
M3A1
 

Last edited by m3a1; 03-31-2019 at 02:33 PM. Reason: change verbage
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  #25  
Old 03-31-2019, 04:03 PM
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Great writeup!!!
 
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  #26  
Old 04-01-2019, 12:55 PM
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I have been on 2 wheels on pavement for 50 years. Some off pavement time in there too. Spartanden and M3a1 nailed it. I read all of both posts, just in case there was something I could learn, didn't know or hadn't thought about. I also wanted to see their advice to you and I can't really add to what they said. Never quit trying to learn more. Never trust a car, and always leave yourself an out. I got rear ended in 2012. Luckily it was very low speed and I wasn't hurt. Since then, I always to try to keep an eye out in my mirrors when slowing or stopping, but sometimes I can still forget. When stopping for a light in traffic, I'll line up so that I can get between 2 cars or next to one if it looks like I'm gonna get rear ended. It can't be emphasized enough, absolutely look where you want to go, YOU WILL GO Where you are looking. Try not to fixate on a target, like a dead animal or other road debris. Keep those eyes moving and searching for harm. Deer here are all over and dogs can be a threat too. One thing I can add, is that should you find yourself going "too fast" into a curve is to never give up on leaning over. Chances are you won't be scraping the ground yet and additional lean may save your bacon. Good luck, take the courses and consider a lighter bike for a season or two.

I want to add 2 more suggestions. Avoid the urge to take a passenger until you are more experienced and confident. Their extra weight & movement can or will require you to make sooner or stronger inputs and adjustments. Avoid the urge to "show-off" or "keep-up" with a more experienced or better rider. Either can be recipes for disaster.
 

Last edited by GoofySB; 04-01-2019 at 01:37 PM.
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  #27  
Old 04-01-2019, 03:30 PM
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Taking the course is good for you.

Parking lot practice is good for you and your bike. Get to know each other. find your limits, that means ..... tip it over. NOT crash. but in parking lot practice finding that point where you can feel it is going over but hasn't yet helps build muscle memory.

And an important tip for parking lot practice. Can't believe nobody mentioned this.


POOL NOODLES.
 
  #28  
Old 04-01-2019, 03:48 PM
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Right now you are tense when you ride,when you learn and practice all that was told to you here you will begin to relax,ride correctly & actually enjoy that bike.If you cant learn to relax while riding you might consider some other hobby,like they've all said your choice in bikes was too WAY too much for a first time rider.Good luck!
 
  #29  
Old 04-01-2019, 04:27 PM
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This is what a salesman at a HD store told me, when I was looking to get my first bike. He told me that a Fat Boy was too much bike for me as that was what I was interested in, in 1996. He told me to get a Honda Shadow 600. As the controls and ride were similar. I looked at him like WHAT? Then he said in a loud and clear voice that everybody in the store could hear it. He (me) is looking for his first bike. Should he get a Fat Boy or something else? Replies were get a Honda. However he did say that if I really wanted a Fat Boy he would sell me one. But, he would not feel good about it. Get a Honda and learn to ride first with confidence, and I can always come back later. I found that was good advice. Because all of you know that the rubber did not always see the pavement.
 
  #30  
Old 04-01-2019, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Guy Apple
So I bought 19 FLHX only been able to do short rides do to winter. But stopping smooth and turning I'm struggling. Over 45 miles an hour I panic any advice.
Do yourself and everyone else a favor and sell the bike. When I was a new rider, I was not afraid of going over 45 mph. Clearly you have issues and should not be riding.
 
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