ABS Brake Recall
#131
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mountain Top, Alabama
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Alarmdoug
I really hope you do not take this with any inflection other than am very interested in learning more about your failure.
What year was your V-Star
Did it have ABS
What exactly failed in the brakes
The reason I ask is that if the ABS failed, as in froze up, then any other motorcycle can have the same concern as the Harley owners. A system did not fail in a safe manner. I would like to see the inside of the V-Star design.
If something failed other than the ABS module due to moisture in the brake fluid, should all of us start inspection other parts of the brake system on any bike. The diagnosis would help everyone.
I kind of learned a different way about moisture in brake fluid. I mountain bike and the hydraulic disk brakes use DOT 4. The second year I owned the bike, first ride of the season, the front brake system started dragging on a long ride and eventually would not release. I did not realize that you have to bleed the brakes and replace the fluid every spring. These brake systems are very small, having only a few CCs of fluid and no reservoir, just a plunger pushing the fluid. Moisture expanded the fluid over the winter and the heat generated while braking expanded the fluid, clamping down on the rotor.
I really hope you do not take this with any inflection other than am very interested in learning more about your failure.
What year was your V-Star
Did it have ABS
What exactly failed in the brakes
The reason I ask is that if the ABS failed, as in froze up, then any other motorcycle can have the same concern as the Harley owners. A system did not fail in a safe manner. I would like to see the inside of the V-Star design.
If something failed other than the ABS module due to moisture in the brake fluid, should all of us start inspection other parts of the brake system on any bike. The diagnosis would help everyone.
I kind of learned a different way about moisture in brake fluid. I mountain bike and the hydraulic disk brakes use DOT 4. The second year I owned the bike, first ride of the season, the front brake system started dragging on a long ride and eventually would not release. I did not realize that you have to bleed the brakes and replace the fluid every spring. These brake systems are very small, having only a few CCs of fluid and no reservoir, just a plunger pushing the fluid. Moisture expanded the fluid over the winter and the heat generated while braking expanded the fluid, clamping down on the rotor.
Now back to our regular scheduled griping about HD's pizz poor choice of ABS brake component design and materials '08 - '12 and the blame game on brake fluid flushes...
Last edited by TheGrandPoohBah; 03-17-2018 at 12:07 PM.
#132
#133
#134
I've read your posts and lots of others in the same vein. And I agree, negligence can be fatal. If everyone throughly read all maintainee instructions including the fine print there would be a tremendous savings in pain, death, time and money.
But that still doesn't answer the core question here.
Why don't Harley Davidson ABS brakes failsafe to standard brakes as the industry standard indicates and HD advertised they would?
But that still doesn't answer the core question here.
Why don't Harley Davidson ABS brakes failsafe to standard brakes as the industry standard indicates and HD advertised they would?
(however yahama puts the brake fluid change requirement in foot notes after the maintance schedule, I was pissed, BUT lets be fair here, there was no fine print with Harley, HD put in right in the maintenance schedule. Yamaha HAD THE FINE PRINT.
I too expected a "failsafe" because like on an automobile, if the master cylinder goes, you push to the floor and you always have emergency braking power. I couldnt believe my bike wasnt doing the same but in reality I did have brakes, I had no rear but I did have the front.
If you think about it though, the "failsafe" might be, I still have the front brakes. More or less if one fails, I still have the other, like in Harleys case.
You guys think I am defending Harley, Im not, Im just saying I owned another NON ABS bike and the rear brakes failed completely because I didnt change the brake fluid, I did not blame Yamaha, BUT I was PISSED that Yamaha left the required brake fluid change out of the maintenance schedule and put it in the foot notes after the schedule.
I agree with everyone about what Harley advertised or wrote about the failsafe. Stuff happens though, every manufacturer right up to the space shuttle sadly can not anticipate or or figure out every possible flaw in an engineering design.
But if the brake fluid was change ... yes, yes, I know I said that! )
Last edited by alarmdoug; 03-19-2018 at 06:00 AM.
#135
#136
I too expected a "failsafe" because like on an automobile, if the master cylinder goes, you push to the floor and you always have emergency braking power. I couldnt believe my bike wasnt doing the same but in reality I did have brakes, I had no rear but I did have the front.
If you think about it though, the "failsafe" might be, I still have the front brakes. More or less if one fails, I still have the other, like in Harleys case.
)
The following users liked this post:
alarmdoug (03-20-2018)
#138
Im not sure what the industry standard is, I owned a 2007 Yamaha Vstar 1300 tourer and the rear brakes failed because I didnt change the brake fluid.
(however yahama puts the brake fluid change requirement in foot notes after the maintance schedule, I was pissed, BUT lets be fair here, there was no fine print with Harley, HD put in right in the maintenance schedule. Yamaha HAD THE FINE PRINT.
I too expected a "failsafe" because like on an automobile, if the master cylinder goes, you push to the floor and you always have emergency braking power. I couldnt believe my bike wasnt doing the same but in reality I did have brakes, I had no rear but I did have the front.
If you think about it though, the "failsafe" might be, I still have the front brakes. More or less if one fails, I still have the other, like in Harleys case.
[...]
(however yahama puts the brake fluid change requirement in foot notes after the maintance schedule, I was pissed, BUT lets be fair here, there was no fine print with Harley, HD put in right in the maintenance schedule. Yamaha HAD THE FINE PRINT.
I too expected a "failsafe" because like on an automobile, if the master cylinder goes, you push to the floor and you always have emergency braking power. I couldnt believe my bike wasnt doing the same but in reality I did have brakes, I had no rear but I did have the front.
If you think about it though, the "failsafe" might be, I still have the front brakes. More or less if one fails, I still have the other, like in Harleys case.
[...]
Regarding footnotes and fine print, I referred to these from HD service manual maintenance schedule previously and have attached a couple snapshots illustrating a situation identical to that you've described w/Yamaha. The footnote doesn't even specify 24 months, and "two years" can and will be interpreted as anything less than 3 years by most anyone doing maintenance--including dealerships--assuming they took notice of footnotes on the next page at all. Nor does it imply any sense of urgency or the possibility of a fatally compromised brake system. Either they didn't anticipate the system could fail in this fashion and the footnote is just a standard legal CYA that's habitually ignored in everything from cycles to software, or they did know and epically failed to communicate the gravity and dire consequences of failure to flush system within an interval that's only loosely specified. Look at the other footnotes. Does anyone actually make sure to disassemble, inspect, and lube steering head bearings or change fork oil at 50K, and if not would it be acceptable if the front ends suddenly came apart without warning? Poor design, poor engineering, and poor product support with little regard for their customers.
#139
I was going to say neck bearings are important and could lead to loss of control with a wobble resulting in death so they should be inspected but then I recalled these bikes are prone to death wobbles anyway! So we have a wobble to worry about, crappy suspension and hit and miss brakes (no pun intended). Still safer than a foot clutch / hand shift, rigid, drum brake (what brakes?) bike and people pay big money for those clunky old things.
#140
...
Regarding footnotes and fine print, I referred to these from HD service manual maintenance schedule previously and have attached a couple snapshots illustrating a situation identical to that you've described w/Yamaha. The footnote doesn't even specify 24 months, and "two years" can and will be interpreted as anything less than 3 years by most anyone doing maintenance--including dealerships--assuming they took notice of footnotes on the next page at all. Nor does it imply any sense of urgency ..
Regarding footnotes and fine print, I referred to these from HD service manual maintenance schedule previously and have attached a couple snapshots illustrating a situation identical to that you've described w/Yamaha. The footnote doesn't even specify 24 months, and "two years" can and will be interpreted as anything less than 3 years by most anyone doing maintenance--including dealerships--assuming they took notice of footnotes on the next page at all. Nor does it imply any sense of urgency ..
On the 2014 Touring manual it is right in the maintenance schedule.
Thanks for the photo, I may not have believed you. )
Once again, that was then, this is now, Im sure HD learned a lesson with ABS and how not to repeat the issue. (like any manufacturer) but change fluid on time for sure.. *L*
Last edited by alarmdoug; 03-20-2018 at 05:35 AM.