ABS Brake Recall
#31
03-13-2018, 01:42 PM
Elite HDF Member
I bought my bike used three years ago. I've had the brake fluid flushed twice. Once when I first got it, and again the following June. I took my bike in yesterday for the ABS flush recall, and whamo...while in the shop (convenient) my ABS module fails and the front brake lever is hard.
Now I have no record of what the previous owner did or did not do, but it's been flushed twice in my ownership. I don't know if I should be suspicious that it magically failed on it's way from the storage lot to the digi tech, or thanking my lucky stars that it didn't happen on the freeway while riding to the dealership.
$545.30 to replace the module and I *might* have it back by the end of March.
Now I have no record of what the previous owner did or did not do, but it's been flushed twice in my ownership. I don't know if I should be suspicious that it magically failed on it's way from the storage lot to the digi tech, or thanking my lucky stars that it didn't happen on the freeway while riding to the dealership.
$545.30 to replace the module and I *might* have it back by the end of March.
#33
03-13-2018, 05:13 PM
All of that is very reasonable
Except
There is no other vehicle, that I am aware of, that disables braking when the ABS fails. I have heard of no auto, truck, bus, van, motorcycle, plane or whatever that fails the same way. Lots of ABS failure but none that disable braking.
You are correct, the only recall is for fluid so that's what folks are stuck with. But it's not right and is dangerous and deserves a recall. And the MoCo is blaming users for something that's not a poblem on other vehicles.
Except
There is no other vehicle, that I am aware of, that disables braking when the ABS fails. I have heard of no auto, truck, bus, van, motorcycle, plane or whatever that fails the same way. Lots of ABS failure but none that disable braking.
You are correct, the only recall is for fluid so that's what folks are stuck with. But it's not right and is dangerous and deserves a recall. And the MoCo is blaming users for something that's not a poblem on other vehicles.
So, in reality, the recall has nothing to do with the the ABS module failing and disabling braking, the ABS sensors failing and disabling braking or the wiring to the sensors failing and disabling braking. The failure with braking is solely because the HCU failed and the reason it failed is owners didn't perform preventative maintenance on their motorcycle's braking system, i.e. the brake fluid was not flushed during the timeframe called for in the maintenance schedule, therefore the brake fluid became contaminated, which then caused it to gel, which in turn, caused the valves in the HCU to stick in the closed position. That is why the brakes failed, not because the ABS system failed. As much as my emotions want to put the blame on Harley-Davidson, reason tells me otherwise.
#34
03-13-2018, 05:27 PM
Road Warrior
Good post ^^^
All motorcycles, virtually all brands require 2 year brake fluid flushes.
IN fact some Yamaha's not only required the fluid flushes but also rebuild calipers and master cylinders too.
I think too many people are reading too much into this.
I feel that there is more to this recall than meets the eye. Read it, all their blame is on the brake fluid, and only the brake fluid. "Flush the system at intervals not to exceed 2 years, or if moisture content reaches 3%". BS. The MoCo does not address why only these certain model years. There is more to this, beyond the brake fluid.
Flame away...
Flame away...
IN fact some Yamaha's not only required the fluid flushes but also rebuild calipers and master cylinders too.
I think too many people are reading too much into this.
Last edited by ChickinOnaChain; 03-13-2018 at 06:38 PM.
#35
03-13-2018, 06:14 PM
I think what you're missing in this particular recall is all the reported failures to the NHTSA (and I've read every one of them) involved a mechanical failure of the hydraulic control unit (HCU). When these failures occurred, I did not find one report where both front and rear brakes failed to operate at the same time. It was either the front brakes or the rear brake, but not both.
So, in reality, the recall has nothing to do with the the ABS module failing and disabling braking, the ABS sensors failing and disabling braking or the wiring to the sensors failing and disabling braking. The failure with braking is solely because the HCU failed and the reason it failed is owners didn't perform preventative maintenance on their motorcycle's braking system, i.e. the brake fluid was not flushed during the timeframe called for in the maintenance schedule, therefore the brake fluid became contaminated, which then caused it to gel, which in turn, caused the valves in the HCU to stick in the closed position. That is why the brakes failed, not because the ABS system failed. As much as my emotions want to put the blame on Harley-Davidson, reason tells me otherwise.
I also think you're missing what I'm saying,.
I'll try to be succenct.
Brake fluid changes are missunderstood. The vast majority of people don't understand or realize that it should be flushed. There are probably more cars, trucks and motorcycles on the road that have never been flushed than have. Some probably a decade or more old.
Why do we not hear of more of them with failing ABS modules/valves or whatever?
Is it because they default to standard braking and not lock up half your braking power?
Why don't HD brakes default to standard braking as they SHOULD?
You can blame the module failure on poor maintaince and probably be right. But the consiquence should not be loss of half your brakes.As someone above said, the standard is a soft failure and that's not what's happening.
All well and good but do their ABS failures result in locked up brakes or just no ABS?
Last edited by ChickinOnaChain; 03-13-2018 at 06:38 PM.
#36
03-13-2018, 07:16 PM
Extreme HDF Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mountain Top, Alabama
Posts: 14,731
Received 2,524 Likes
on
1,421 Posts
That's the question everybody is jumping around.
"Flush your brakes every two years" must be good enough for them.
It's not for me either.
Oh, and "Brake fluid draws moisture" didn't just start in '08, either.
"Flush your brakes every two years" must be good enough for them.
It's not for me either.
Oh, and "Brake fluid draws moisture" didn't just start in '08, either.
#37
03-13-2018, 07:53 PM
Road Captain
Not sure how much of this is the usual forum BS, but if a $20K motorcycle came with a crappy chinese part running a critical system, that is a major problem. Yes, all brake systems are supposed to be flushed, and maybe these newer systems are less tolerant of longer intervals, but I've seen older vehicles go decades without and failure to flush leading to catastrophic failure on a critical system is unacceptable--you just don't design a vehicle braking system that way. Not to mention that the failures people describe, if accurate, make no sense as to how the ABS system is designed. It should be releasing pressure from brake line to caliper when needed--just a blow off valve in essence. Why in the world would it be designed such that the hydraulic circuit runs through a release/blow off mechanism that can seize and render the brakes on that circuit useless? I can't believe this is accurate but don't know how else the failures people describe could be occurring... If this is the case the unit should be recalled and whatever company produced the POS held accountable, just as Takata was on air bags. When will these manufacturers learn sourcing from china is a mistake--if they get it right 99 times out of 100 it's still unacceptable. I'm sick and tired of dealing with this junk.
The following users liked this post:
wibiker (03-15-2018)
#40
03-13-2018, 08:59 PM
Response to post #37:
If you do not maintain your motorcycle, you and you alone are responsible if something goes wrong. You are taking a risk every time you ride, so why would you not ensure that everything in your control on that bike is maintained? First of all, other vehicles do have problems and, second of all, even if other vehicles did not have problems, you are going to use that as an excuse for not maintaining your motorcycle?
I have no proof, but I'm willing to bet that 90+% of the people who reported brake failures to the NHTSA never flushed their brake fluid. If you look at the model years of those bikes in the complaints that led to the recall, a vast majority of them reported failures when the bikes were 5-7 years old. Only one bike did I find that had a brake failure within the first two years.
If you do not maintain your motorcycle, you and you alone are responsible if something goes wrong. You are taking a risk every time you ride, so why would you not ensure that everything in your control on that bike is maintained? First of all, other vehicles do have problems and, second of all, even if other vehicles did not have problems, you are going to use that as an excuse for not maintaining your motorcycle?
I have no proof, but I'm willing to bet that 90+% of the people who reported brake failures to the NHTSA never flushed their brake fluid. If you look at the model years of those bikes in the complaints that led to the recall, a vast majority of them reported failures when the bikes were 5-7 years old. Only one bike did I find that had a brake failure within the first two years.
Last edited by GalvTexGuy; 03-13-2018 at 09:01 PM.