A lot of us can't leave well enough alone. We know that the motor is capable of more than the MoCo and the EPA want us to have, so we like to get the most out of the motor that we can.

If you don't want to add fuel management (tuner) to your bike and you are happy with how it runs, leave it alone. Chances are, if you take care of it, the bike will give you many pleasurable miles. It has been suggested by many that adding slip-ons or adding a high flow A/C doesn't require a tuner, but the bike will perform better and run cooler with a tuner. A cooler running motor is a happy motor. Is your motor going to crater if you add both slip-ons and a high flow A/C and you don't add a tuner? Maybe. Maybe not. As you know, adding slip-ons and a high flow A/C would likely go beyond the ability of the ECM to compensate for those changes and the motor will be running leaner than if it was stock, so a tuner would be required at that point, in my opinion. I added a tuner (FP3) when my bike was stock and I noticed right away that the bike ran much better and much cooler. I have since changed exhausts and A/Cs a few times and each time I was able to load a different tune to get the bike to run at its best. For me, the FP3 is worth every penny.

 

1)Using what tuner and what did you do??
2)Why should it be tuned, based on your opinion?
3)So why re-tune the motor then, if it's just stock, in your opinion?

Thank you for answering the questions, but having a better explanation in your answers would have been better received. In simplifying my post as you did, I stated I'm looking for concrete answers, which you deleted. If you spent $300 on a tuner, slapped a map on there and then said it rides better then what proof do you have of that other than you "felt" it rode better?

Read this: http://www.nightrider.com/parts/ied_faq.htm

In creating his product, does he have knowledge of what I'm asking? Sounds pretty legit, and members on this forum and others have bought his products.

 

there is more to tuning than AFR, it is adding or subtracting fuel into the map, it is adding or subtracting ignition timing at different points, it is cold and hot start settings,

not to beat a dead horse, but AGAIN what the motor, even in stock trim is capable of, and what it does when delivered to you in a form the EPA dictates are two different things.

You can ride it all day long in stock trim and be happy, or you can get the hidden performance.

Some of you will be happy with the cake Mom made, some of us want to lick the spoon.

At this point you just want to argue, I'm too old for this sh*t


Last point. My Kawi C14 is a monster of a bike, for 12 grand it is a sport touring bike that will do sub 11 second 1/4 mile times easily, and do 150 MPH in stock form

Rip out the stock ECM, send it to a guy in Florida, and he unleashes another 19 HP and 10 ft/pounds of torque out of the bike.

It isn't cheap ( $300 ) but he has hundreds of hours into dyno time perfecting the tune, and as he improves it reflashes are short money ($25.00)

 

Read this: http://www.nightrider.com/parts/ied_faq.htm

I don't believe I've been living under an illusion, and if you are saying that a carbed bike and a EFI bike are similar in that nothing has changed over the years you might want to rethink that. Now I'm not saying that you can't tune a carb and have your ride running flawlessly, but comparing a carb to an ECM/EFI bike is like comparing apples and oranges. I'm not talking about building a 124" monster, I'm asking about a simple exhaust change and/or a high flow A/C change.

I'm trying to debunk "opinions" with actual facts, to obtain correct information. Opinions are for threads about bars where several people can say I like 12" bars better than 10" bars, and others say they like beach bars. My questions should be as simple as yes and no answers and what proof do you have to back up those answers. Like when Hillside or Fuelmoto answer questions with dyno run sheets showing multiple components working together to achieve hp/tq numbers, thats proof.

Then again, maybe these questions can't be answered on this forum, since many don't have info on how the harley ECM operates.

 

Thanks for all the replies, ride safe!

 

 

I disagree. EFI includes what is referred to as KAM, or Keep Alive Memory. The KAM builds in fuel trims and corrective functions that attach to your bike's algorithms and make it run close to the original specified AFR's for any given condition. The need or desire to tune is based on changing the specified objective. Does a stock bike need a tuner. No. Can performance benefit from a tuner on a stock bike? Yes, but minutely.

 

Hmmm... we all would like everything to be black & white.... but so many things live within the grey area.... EFI Tuning is one of them.

There are some basic, objective tuning goals & rules.... yet, even quantifying those will be based on expectations & priorities of engine performance. Most of whether to tune, or not to tune, is very much a subjective thing... The answer will be dependent on what YOU want out of YOUR bike....

I personally don't agree that just because a bike reaches 100K miles, and doesn't blow up, it had an acceptable tune. Now, if your main/only goal is to ride a bike for 100,000 without it blowing up, then you would obviously disagree with me... no right, no wrong, just different expectations & perspectives.

You referenced a marketing piece by Nightrider (yes I said marketing, they are trying to sell you something). I hope you don't think it is some kind of factual dissertation on EFI tuning. They certainly have an opinion and perspective on when/how/how much tuning is required on a modified bike, but there are many experts that would offer a different opinion on some of NightRiders alleged facts.....

How can that be? Easy, they will have different opinions on what's necessary, what's good for the bike, and what's good for performance. Some just don't want their bike tonot blow up, others want it to run really well/efficiently, and others still might just want it to get great fuel economy.... Nobody is right, nobody is wrong, they have different wants & opinions on what's most important...... The best tuners will ask you how you ride, and what you want out of your bike....and then tell you what they can and/or can't do with your bike/mods, before ever hooking it up to a tuner...

While dyno sheets can be a good reference for a well balanced, tuned, and performing set of mods.... It is not always the best representation of how a bike runs, feels, and will last. But again, if you're goal is to have an incredible dyno sheet posted on your wall..... Then a good dyno sheet will be your priority...

My point is ..... you seem to be looking for Black or White, Yes or No, completely objective answers to a question that is totally based on subjective goals & priorities..... Again, while there are some "actual facts" that most would agree to with EFI tuning, even some of those would be debated between experts.

That's why tuning is a grey area.... and you will never escape "opinions" when discussing EFI tuning.... I would rather listen to the opinions of Jaime from FuelMoto, or Steve Cole from TTS , sharing their experiences/insights with EFI tuning, than someone who claims they have the one and only answer....

Then again, that's just my opinion.....

 

 

Now you guys did it, scared the poor kid away. LOL