Is it bad for the bike to brake with engine?
#22
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mountain Top, Alabama
Posts: 14,731
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#23
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#25
I must laugh at the comment about wanting to stop very quickly, add engine braking to regular braking. A given tire on a given surface only has a certain amount of traction. When you request more traction than the tire can provide, either by braking or by engine braking and wheel brakes together, the tire will slide. If your brake can lock the wheel, you have exceeded the available traction for that tire and road surface. Once a tire begins to slide, it creates a great deal of heat and the rubber in contact with the road starts to melt and form a "liquid rubber bearing" and stopping distance INCREASES. The only possible advantage in downshifting for max effort stopping is that the lower gear may help prevent wheel lock-up with the engine not wanting to be stalled so the locked wheel slide is avoided.
For me, NORMAL stops are done with coasting to maximum extent practical with the flow of traffic with the engine connected to the rear wheels in whatever gear I was in when beginning to slow, then complete the stop using the brakes with the clutch pulled in. I decided YEARS AGO, brakes were cheaper and easier to replace than clutches. For LONG DOWNHILL runs, the situation is different. constant braking will eventually over heat either the disc or the caliper and boil the brake fluid. Engine braking on a along downhill run is a matter of survival, not just better for the machine.
As a matter of principle, a clutch and brake are the same (there are many multiple disc brakes that look just like Harley clutches) and each only wears when the two parts are rubbing together. When fully released or fully locked there is no wear. If you choose to add extra wear to your clutch with each downshift, that is your choice but as many have experienced, done properly the extra wear is negligible. Do what you like to do. Consider that there is no way to avoid cycling ALL of the clutch system (lever, cable, release lever, ball ramp and throw out bearing EVERY TIME you begin moving from a stop and upshift through the gears. There is CHOICE as to whether you repeat all of the cycles as you slow by downshifting and releasing the clutch lever with each shift for engine braking, or pull in the lever ONCE and use the brakes to complete the stop.
I doubt that the primary chain auto tensioner is tightened during engine braking, intuitively I would guess it jumps to the next tighter step when the engine is pulling hard. The direction of rotation makes the top part of the chain tight when the engine is pulling and the bottom side gets some slack. The bottom side gets tight when the engine is braking (or being pushed by the bike's inertia) and any slack is on the top side.. Make your own guess under which condition the tensioner is most free to jump to the next tighter position.
For me, NORMAL stops are done with coasting to maximum extent practical with the flow of traffic with the engine connected to the rear wheels in whatever gear I was in when beginning to slow, then complete the stop using the brakes with the clutch pulled in. I decided YEARS AGO, brakes were cheaper and easier to replace than clutches. For LONG DOWNHILL runs, the situation is different. constant braking will eventually over heat either the disc or the caliper and boil the brake fluid. Engine braking on a along downhill run is a matter of survival, not just better for the machine.
As a matter of principle, a clutch and brake are the same (there are many multiple disc brakes that look just like Harley clutches) and each only wears when the two parts are rubbing together. When fully released or fully locked there is no wear. If you choose to add extra wear to your clutch with each downshift, that is your choice but as many have experienced, done properly the extra wear is negligible. Do what you like to do. Consider that there is no way to avoid cycling ALL of the clutch system (lever, cable, release lever, ball ramp and throw out bearing EVERY TIME you begin moving from a stop and upshift through the gears. There is CHOICE as to whether you repeat all of the cycles as you slow by downshifting and releasing the clutch lever with each shift for engine braking, or pull in the lever ONCE and use the brakes to complete the stop.
I doubt that the primary chain auto tensioner is tightened during engine braking, intuitively I would guess it jumps to the next tighter step when the engine is pulling hard. The direction of rotation makes the top part of the chain tight when the engine is pulling and the bottom side gets some slack. The bottom side gets tight when the engine is braking (or being pushed by the bike's inertia) and any slack is on the top side.. Make your own guess under which condition the tensioner is most free to jump to the next tighter position.
The following 2 users liked this post by btsom:
Peter Griffin (07-16-2019),
Zonktified (07-15-2019)
#26
Brakes are better for stopping than the engine. You rubber belt is weaker than your brakes. I use my brakes usually for stopping. For slowing, it depends on how much and how quick.
How many other folks on this board have gotten 98,000 miles on a belt drive?
I stick to using brakes. Disk cool quick enough. But I don't know how many folks have ridden motorcycles with drum brakes, front and rear or even just rear.
How many other folks on this board have gotten 98,000 miles on a belt drive?
I stick to using brakes. Disk cool quick enough. But I don't know how many folks have ridden motorcycles with drum brakes, front and rear or even just rear.
The following users liked this post:
Ibmatt2u (07-14-2019)
#27
Brakes are better for stopping than the engine. You rubber belt is weaker than your brakes. I use my brakes usually for stopping. For slowing, it depends on how much and how quick.
How many other folks on this board have gotten 98,000 miles on a belt drive?
I stick to using brakes. Disk cool quick enough. But I don't know how many folks have ridden motorcycles with drum brakes, front and rear or even just rear.
How many other folks on this board have gotten 98,000 miles on a belt drive?
I stick to using brakes. Disk cool quick enough. But I don't know how many folks have ridden motorcycles with drum brakes, front and rear or even just rear.
The following 2 users liked this post by cncmike:
Br125 (07-16-2019),
HarleyDammitt (07-15-2019)
#28
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#30
I think my biggest question to anybody who doesn’t run down through the gears as they slow for a curve is how do you get into the correct gear when you come up to a sharp turn? If you are enjoying a deserted country road say doing 60-70 and the sign says 30mph curve ahead what do you do? Hit the brakes and slow to 30 or so and pull the clutch in, shift down three times and hope you’re in the correct gear when you accelerate after the curve?
The following users liked this post:
Hawg Runner (07-14-2019)