Need your help here (and especially Jamie if you catch this threat). I'm really close to a decision to buy Jamie's Fuel Moto performance package for my 09 Ultra. My only hesitation has been the PCV, specifically, disconnecting the 02 sensors (no longer a closed loop system?)

I just read the April 2010 American Iron Magazine. They do a Bub 7 True dual install and the mention also installing the Terry Components True Velocity tuner as well. Apparently, this tuner uses the stock 02 sensors and retains the closed loop features.

I've read almost everything I've seen about the PCV and especially, Jamie's informed opinions (and results!) I just don't want to miss the opportunity to upgrade with a more capable part.

What say you. Is there a performance or reliability difference between the PCV and the Terminal Velocity? Thanks for the help

 

The Terminal Velocity unit has several shortcomings compared to other products on the market. If you are using stock nb sensors you can only work within their limitation which is an AFR of 14.6:1 (+/- .4) and even if it can make slight AFR adjustment it can only do this within the factory closed loop area. It cannot do anything above 70% throttle or any time you are accellerating. It also cannot change ignition timing, it is not programmable and you also do not actually know what the unit is doing at any time because there is no interface. This product may work if you have a bike that is just lean in part of the closed loop, need no igntion timing changes, and does not needs the mixture adjusted anywhere else, but that is generally not the case.

 

I am using the Terry Tuner TV-3 on a 2009 FLHT with Bassani Slip-ons, a V&H DRAK Air Cleaner, and SE 255 cams. It runs great! So I would not say that it is such a bad thing to have. 'Just Sayin' ............

 

I have a tv2 ,they are ok for stage one upgrade but if you plan to do any performance work like adding compression you will need to get a tts or sert to adjust the timing even then they seem to run on the lean side,so if I were you I would just get a tts and be done with it ,will do everything you need no matter what motor mods you do in the future.

 

If a fuel management product doesn't use the 02 sensors, it's basically a "dumb" product that cannot adjust should you change pipes or a/c. It can be reprogrammed using a dyno to change the fuel and ignition timing, but then it reverts to being "dumb" but with new values.

The TV3 is basically a small computer that collects actual air fuel ratio (AFR) information while you ride, compares it to the target AFR for which its programmed (rpm, load, and throttle position), and adjusts the electronic information it is providing to the bike's ECM to achieve the target value. It doesn't need to be reprogrammed or dynoed to make these adjustments when you change pipes, mufflers, a/c, etc. since it is continuously collecting AFR information via the 02 sensors and comparing it to the target values which remain the same.

I'm not an expert on either of the products you mention. I had an earlier version of the TV3 on my bike for several years and it worked great, and only removed it when I swapped cams and decided to learn how to tune with the SERT (with an expert looking over my shoulder).

 

I am not knocking this product, as with most products on the market they work as advertised as long as you use them within their intended design and limitations. I am sure there are plenty of happy users with Terminal Velocity products. However, you do not need O2 sensors to tune accurately as it all comes down to having the EFI calibrated properly to deliver the correct injector pulse and ignition timing at a given event. All pre 07 Harleys (pre-06 Dyna's) did not use O2 sensors and there are many Japanese models do not as well with far more advanced control systems, some of them with 160+ rear wheel Hp. O2 sensors were utilized to meet EPA mandations so these models can maintain a stoich AFR to meet regulations as required. In a speed density EFI system the ECM uses a calculated airflow model to determine its fuel load. It uses several sensors in this calculation, the key sensor being the MAP sensor which measures absolute pressure in the intake, to assure the EPA mandated calibration is delivering the correct mixture in closed loop the nb O2 sensor is used to monitor AFR when the actual AFR target it 14.6:1, however it is not a sensor that calculates the fuel delivery. Simply put, you cannot tune what these sensors cannot measure which as stated earlier is 14.6:1 (+/-.4) Wideband O2 sensors on the otherhand can measure from approx 12.0-16.0 AFR and there are several tuning platforms on the market that make use of them in providing real time tuning and options above and beyond what the stock EFI is capable of.

 

gonna revive this tread instead of starting a new one. Is this product ****?? I looked under the seat of my 09 heritage cause Ive got a lot off popping!! curious if i had a module. pops on/off throttle , up/down shifting. Does have VH pipes and what looks to be an air cleaner, but shouldnt this unit take care of this? being an auto tuner?? any advise would be great. sorry I'm a noob