take it to a professional

 

I am talking about the actual retainer. It snapped in half, valve keepers didnt break.

 

Bike is at same shop that dynod it. I am luckily to have a great indy. I am doing all repairs there and they are working with me to keep costs down. I may send heads out and have them set up.

 

After rereading you post that is what I though you ere saying but I still think the two little moon keepers came out first but not necessarily in your case because they were not seated correctly or double check as I stated above in my previous post. Of course they will come out with dire results if not seated correctly. However just maybe in your case due to extra lift the geometry was not correct and the rocker came in conflict with the side of the retainer which tended to bend or bind valve rather then push it straight down on the stem end. This would surely pop the keepers , dislodge the retainer and break it in half with the levering effect of the rocker arm on the retainer with it not supported 360 in the valve spring. Of course this is just my opinion. In order of hardness. The retainers are heat treated brittle hard. Just the stem end of the valve is harden. The retainers and the groove in the valve are hard but a fine jeweler file will cut them to deburr them. Was this like just a crunch and the motor stopped when it happened? Never been on one when it blows up but that has to be a funny filling especial if it is at high rpm between your legs or worst yet suddenly dragging rear tire down the road. Scarry to me

 

yeah, its not fun. When it went it made a few clicks and all power went out and it just revd down. Of course with the valve bent and stuck open the push rod was loose and that blew oil all over the side of air cleaner and cam chest cover. Not a pretty site for sure. It just makes noises you KNOW arent right. Pretty shitty feeling

 

Very unusual for a retainer to split like that; I am thinking that the split retainer is the result of another failure. Valve seats have been known to drop out when the engine gets hot. Your OP indicated that you were on the last run which would tell me that the engine was hot. Another possibility is the EZ start cams; I am not totally familiar with the way the work but they bleed of compression by holding valves open. Could one of the EZ start built in compression releases malfunctioned and pushed a valve open?

Anything is possible and certainly the failure could have been the result of a defective valve spring retainer or an assembly related issue. However, if assembly related, the problem would have likely exhibited before the last run. The later model beehive springs are good to .600" lift and if the problem was coil bind, one would also think the problem would have also exhibited before the last run; coil bind is coil bind. S&S clearly states that the 583 can be run with OEM beehive springs. TMans new 600SM can be run with OEM beehives. I am just not convinced that a valve spring retainer splitting is the source of the problem and would continue digging to avoid the possibility of another grenade after the rebuild but that's just me. Your ride, you get to decide.

There isn't enough history on the EZ starts to get me to run them; I will stick with conventional manualo compression releases. I don't like them for the simple reason that you cannot get accurate compression readings on a compression test with them but, again, just me.

Sorry to hear of the bad luck, I know the feeling and I hope you have better results with the rebuild.

 

I agree and at this point I dont know where to start. The ES cams have been out long enough that one would think they would be ok but who knows. I dont think ive slept in 2 days because I want an answer as to why this happened. Nothing will be assembled until I know what caused this. The seat is broke on the affected valve but I have no idea what went first. I may change cams as well since I have it all apart just not sure what to go with. I loved the pull of the 583 down low. It has a very early intake close, I wonder if that had something to do with this? Probably not but like I said I havent slept so my mind is wandering..lol Im going to give Woods a call and pick their brain as well. Thanks everyone for all the responses.

 

I still don't think it was coil bind but that is easy enough to check. If the other head is still assembled and in good condition ask your tech if they have a Trock tool. The Trock tool will allow you to compress the valve and measure travel to coil bind. This check would elminate coil bind as a problem.

Not saying the EZ Start cams are the culprit, just saying that I am old fashioned and prefer manual compression releases rather than something else the moves and can malfunction.

Certainly a defective retainer could have come apart but you would think it would have come apart sooner. My money is on the valve seat shifting in the casting under heat and load causing the problem but strictly a guess and gut reaction.

Good luck on getting it sorted out.

 

How does one prepare for this during a build? Should I replace the seats and guides in the heads I get? I am going to run Manley springs and collars, also changing out lifters as one of them looks pretty bad. After much research it is one of two things, either the valve floated a bit or the seat shifted. I am now focusing on trying to find heads and replacement parts needed to rebuild. If anyone has some heads sitting around let me know. The heads I was looking at werent for touring models and needed machining for the motor mount.

 

stock behive springs are good for .560 lift. Basically when you put your bike on a dyno, you are testing to see if it can withstand the stresses associated with a max power senerio.....question is...how often do you encounter a max power senerio and are you willing to have a blown engine on your lap if your engine fails. Too risky for me....it's a cash cow for the bike service industry.