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when is pinging the most prevelant during acceleration or steady cruising?

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  #11  
Old 05-25-2012, 03:09 PM
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If it is a solitary tink or several tink tinks and the knock sensing system is eliminating it then I shouldnt worry about until its no longer being handled and I start getting the infamous chitty chatter bing bing on acceleration. Now how does the fact that Im approaching 6 k miles play into it, can normal carbon building up inside the engine be the cause and the tink a symptom of buildup I should be addressing with Seafoam or a cooler plug perhaps....what do you think 2black1s ?
 
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:45 PM
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Tucci,
With 6000 miles you are almost exactly where I was last summer with my bike. By the time I got to 7500 miles there was no question what that tink' tink' tink' sound was.

As the miles piled on the conditions got very predicable.
Hot day
Hot engine
Engine under load
Higher Gears lower rpms (under 4000)

Since I had not modified my engine in thousands of miles, and the fact that it was progressively and clearly getting worse eventually led me the the same line of thinking with the carbon build up you are having. My thoughts are that the carbon build up contributes to the problem when it forms an insulating barrier that holds in heat. After trying a number of things including a generous tankful of seafoam, the problem remained.

Trying to visualize what is going on inside the combustion chamber with a sparkplug hanging out in the open reminded me of my days with a blowtorch, I know that when trying to heat up a large mass, anything small that protrudes will easily glow red hot first. Since a glowing red hot sparkplug is not the way it is intended to run and plugs are cheap, I tried a colder set.

I'm happy to share the one range colder sparkplug did the trick.
 
  #13  
Old 05-25-2012, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TUCCI
If it is a solitary tink or several tink tinks and the knock sensing system is eliminating it then I shouldnt worry about until its no longer being handled and I start getting the infamous chitty chatter bing bing on acceleration.
You're right. If this is the condition then it's not that urgent to worry about. Even though, on my bike I adjusted the timing to eliminate even these momentary knocks.

Originally Posted by TUCCI
Now how does the fact that Im approaching 6 k miles play into it, can normal carbon building up inside the engine be the cause and the tink a symptom of buildup I should be addressing with Seafoam or a cooler plug perhaps....what do you think 2black1s ?
While carbon build-up is a possible cause, I think there are more likely scenarios. My bike now has around 22,000 miles on it and the pinging never changed with mileage. You've seen my air cleaner breathers routed directly into the throttle body, so if carbon build-up was really that common of a cause, I'd be a likely candidate for that condition, yet I've never seen it.

The only changes that seem to effect the pinging on my bike are: 1) AFR; and 2) Timing; with timing being the prominent player.

If you've got a pinging issue, timing is the first place I'd be looking to correct it. Of course, this is assuming the fuel, the temperature, etc., are not contributing.
 
  #14  
Old 05-25-2012, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Ride Ultra
Heard this twice. First time it was driving me nuts, new plugs, other goodies did not aleviate. Found out it was a harmonic vibration in 4th/5th @ 2000+RPM picked up by the custom fuel cap. Few adjustments to cap & noise was gone...
Could you explain how a fuel map could pick up a harmonic vibration and result in anything that could be remotely confused with a ping?

EDIT: Sorry! Misread the original post. Thanks to the next two posters for pointing that out.
 

Last edited by 2black1s; 05-25-2012 at 05:43 PM.
  #15  
Old 05-25-2012, 05:27 PM
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He said fuel CAP, not map
 
  #16  
Old 05-25-2012, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 2black1s
Could you explain how a fuel map could pick up a harmonic vibration and result in anything that could be remotely confused with a ping?
Fuel cap was vibrating.
 

Last edited by nvsteve; 05-25-2012 at 05:30 PM.
  #17  
Old 05-25-2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by journeyman
Tucci,
With 6000 miles you are almost exactly where I was last summer with my bike. By the time I got to 7500 miles there was no question what that tink' tink' tink' sound was.

As the miles piled on the conditions got very predicable.
Hot day
Hot engine
Engine under load
Higher Gears lower rpms (under 4000)

Since I had not modified my engine in thousands of miles, and the fact that it was progressively and clearly getting worse eventually led me the the same line of thinking with the carbon build up you are having. My thoughts are that the carbon build up contributes to the problem when it forms an insulating barrier that holds in heat. After trying a number of things including a generous tankful of seafoam, the problem remained.

Trying to visualize what is going on inside the combustion chamber with a sparkplug hanging out in the open reminded me of my days with a blowtorch, I know that when trying to heat up a large mass, anything small that protrudes will easily glow red hot first. Since a glowing red hot sparkplug is not the way it is intended to run and plugs are cheap, I tried a colder set.

I'm happy to share the one range colder sparkplug did the trick.
Did you go with the VRod plug, I picked up the NGK Iridium in the VRod heat range (DCPR8EIX or 6546) this morning and was going to put them in sometime this weekend. If I didn't index them I could do it before I ride in the morning, which is what I'm thinking of doing. Is it possible that just going one heat range cooler is all it takes? Apparently you've already got your answer, it may be mine by the time I get back.
 
  #18  
Old 05-25-2012, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 2black1s
You're right. If this is the condition then it's not that urgent to worry about. Even though, on my bike I adjusted the timing to eliminate even these momentary knocks.



While carbon build-up is a possible cause, I think there are more likely scenarios. My bike now has around 22,000 miles on it and the pinging never changed with mileage. You've seen my air cleaner breathers routed directly into the throttle body, so if carbon build-up was really that common of a cause, I'd be a likely candidate for that condition, yet I've never seen it.

The only changes that seem to effect the pinging on my bike are: 1) AFR; and 2) Timing; with timing being the prominent player.

If you've got a pinging issue, timing is the first place I'd be looking to correct it. Of course, this is assuming the fuel, the temperature, etc., are not contributing.
I must confess that placing a fuel manager on my bike is something I've considered, but in the same token the complexity intimidates me and I would not know how to navigate comfortably with it. Unless I know exactly how to use it and adjust it I'm abstaining. For what I read they can do, it's def something I would be interested in but the fact remains.
 
  #19  
Old 05-25-2012, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by TUCCI
I must confess that placing a fuel manager on my bike is something I've considered, but in the same token the complexity intimidates me and I would not know how to navigate comfortably with it. Unless I know exactly how to use it and adjust it I'm abstaining. For what I read they can do, it's def something I would be interested in but the fact remains.
I like that about you TUCCI. Not going to do something that you don't thoroughly understand just because someone says you should. I'm the same way.

If you ever decide on a tuner though, I'm sure you can learn and understand its in's and out's with a little effort. And then you'll look back and say "****, I should have done this ages ago".
 
  #20  
Old 05-25-2012, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TUCCI
Did you go with the VRod plug, I picked up the NGK Iridium in the VRod heat range (DCPR8EIX or 6546) this morning and was going to put them in sometime this weekend. If I didn't index them I could do it before I ride in the morning, which is what I'm thinking of doing. Is it possible that just going one heat range cooler is all it takes? Apparently you've already got your answer, it may be mine by the time I get back.
The VRod plug is the same size but one range cooler, so yes that was the choice.
I don't think the brand matters as much as the temperature of the plug.
I got the iridium plug from Denso #IXU24. Yes, I sometimes am particular to a fault as well, so they are indexed.
 


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