Hayden Primary Chain Tensioner - Pictures
#331
01-15-2013, 08:46 AM
My last reply to Hayden this morning to Haydens answer below:
Hi Hayden, I've seen your video, it is of your previous design and has at least a 1/2" of travel and I'm sure it has the older softer springs. If mine worked like the one in the video we would not be having this conversation. Maybe the older design is designed in such a way that it allows for more travel from a new chain such as mine. I do understand that the M6 is designed to have spring tension all the time and I agree with that principle. However mine is rock solid with no movement and tight as can be. The stock tensioner I removed caused the chain to be no where near as tight as the M6 and I'm absolutely positive that it did not put nearly as much stress on the chain, sprockets and bearings. You state the difference between your M6 and the OEM is that the M6 does not continually tighten, I know that but what good is that concept when the M6 severely over tightens it from the start at installation? It was never Harley's intension to have the chain as tight as the M6 causes it to be during initial installation. Again as stated previously in my earlier letter, I'm not at all comfortable leaving it in there as tight as it is forcing all parts to remain under such stress for several hundred miles until it wares in. I would like to continue to use it but I need softer springs or a second set of springs for modification. If softer springs are no longer available then I would like to buy a second set of springs and a shoe. Just so you know, I've been using the Hayden in Harleys since I had Harleys. I had it on in my 1982 FLHS and from the get go it provided proper tension without over tightening the chain. It was in there for at least 15 years. I also used the Hayden in my 2003 Road King and again no issues with to tight a chain at installation. Please sell me a 2nd set of softer springs so that I can have my original springs to reinstall after my chain naturally breaks in. If this is not possible please advise. Again I attached before and after pics for your review. If you look carefully and note that the chain and sprockets are in the same position (not rotated) you will notice that more of the teeth on the sprockets are exposed and the M6 is pushing the bottom portion of the chain up higher which is making it to tight.
Hi Hayden, I've seen your video, it is of your previous design and has at least a 1/2" of travel and I'm sure it has the older softer springs. If mine worked like the one in the video we would not be having this conversation. Maybe the older design is designed in such a way that it allows for more travel from a new chain such as mine. I do understand that the M6 is designed to have spring tension all the time and I agree with that principle. However mine is rock solid with no movement and tight as can be. The stock tensioner I removed caused the chain to be no where near as tight as the M6 and I'm absolutely positive that it did not put nearly as much stress on the chain, sprockets and bearings. You state the difference between your M6 and the OEM is that the M6 does not continually tighten, I know that but what good is that concept when the M6 severely over tightens it from the start at installation? It was never Harley's intension to have the chain as tight as the M6 causes it to be during initial installation. Again as stated previously in my earlier letter, I'm not at all comfortable leaving it in there as tight as it is forcing all parts to remain under such stress for several hundred miles until it wares in. I would like to continue to use it but I need softer springs or a second set of springs for modification. If softer springs are no longer available then I would like to buy a second set of springs and a shoe. Just so you know, I've been using the Hayden in Harleys since I had Harleys. I had it on in my 1982 FLHS and from the get go it provided proper tension without over tightening the chain. It was in there for at least 15 years. I also used the Hayden in my 2003 Road King and again no issues with to tight a chain at installation. Please sell me a 2nd set of softer springs so that I can have my original springs to reinstall after my chain naturally breaks in. If this is not possible please advise. Again I attached before and after pics for your review. If you look carefully and note that the chain and sprockets are in the same position (not rotated) you will notice that more of the teeth on the sprockets are exposed and the M6 is pushing the bottom portion of the chain up higher which is making it to tight.
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Hayden Enterprises -General Info wrote:
Hi Robert. We understand and appreciate your concern. Again, keep in mind the M6 will have tension on the chain at all times. The difference is our spring system compared to the stock ratcheting system. We dont continuously tighten. The most the springs will move and self adjust is upon start up or when you really need to get on it to accelerate quickly. To watch the M6 while the bike is sitting at an idle will not show you what the unit is doing. Take another look at our video on our website http://www.haydensm6.com/m6_bt07.htm . Again, you will gain approximately another 16th of an inch (larger spring measurement) once those chain links seat themselves in our shoe.
We hope this puts your mind at ease and please feel free to call us. We're here to help. 951-371-0030 .
On Jan 12, 2013, at 8:24 AM, ROBERT wrote:
Greetings again, below is my original letter to you and your reply is below that. This is my concern. I purchased your M6 so that my chain would not become to tight because of the OEM ratcheting tensioner. Since I installed you M6, my chain became extremely tight with no movement up and down at all. If you look closely at the before and after pictures you can see how tight the chain is (top portion) with the M6. The fact that I have less then a 1/4" between the bottom of the shoe and the M6 base indicates to me that there isn't enough travel to allow the M6 to function properly. I know my chain is very new but I'm not about to force it to stretch prematurely do to excessive tightness. My biggest concern is destroying a transmission bearing and inner primary bearings. I know you said give it a few hundred miles to allow breakin but I'm concerned again about way to much stress on the bearings until the chain stretches some more. As I see it I have 2 choices, either I remove the M6 and reinstall the OEM tensioner until the chain gradually looses up some or my first choice would be to use springs that have less resistance in the M6 until it stretches some then reinstall the original supplied springs. Again I have no travel left because I'm less then a 1/4". Please tell me that you have springs that would allow a little less tension or softer springs in other words. I cannot continue to ride it the way it is now but want to keep the M6 in place. I will buy the softer springs such as I've seen with your previous kits if available. Please advise. Thanks Bob Perricone. p.s. I forgot to mention that I'm not using any spacers.
Greetings, I just installed your M6 in my 2011 Street Glide, I received in a couple of days ago from Phat Performance. It is the latest version (not welded). My concern is that I'm only getting just shy of a 1/4" from the bottom of the shoe to the bracket. Your directions state I should have 3/8". Since I installed the Hayden my chain is extremely tight and I'm unable to get any up and down movement at the top portion of the chain. With the OEM tensioner I had between 1/2" and 3/4" up and down travel. My bike only has a little less then 6000 miles on it and was without any issues. I belong to HD Forums and the thread I've been discussing this tight issue has suggested that I remove the smaller inner spring to put a little less tension on it. After I did the install I noted more noise coming from the primary and read that the noise should lesson in time but I'm concerned that because it's so tight and I'm not exaggerating that I may destroy a bearing before it loosens up a bit. I attached a before and after pictures for your review. Do you suggest removing the inner spring to lesson the tension a bit or are there softer springs available? I'm very concerned, please advise, thanks Bob
And Hayden's reply:
Hi Robert,
Thanks,
Hayden's M6 -Primary Chain Tensioner
Hi Robert,
Keep in mind the M6 has constant pressure on the chain. We don't care about chain travel or chain slack measurements. It's the spring compression that's important. You should be installed without either of the shims because of so few miles on the chain. You should however be using both springs at the same time. We have never told anyone to only install one springs. Give the chain a couple hundred miles to cut a little bit into our nylon shoe to seat the rollers. Once that happens your measurement will gain a little and you'll also see the whirling sound go away. That sound is merely the chain gliding over the nylon shoe.
Thanks,
Hayden's M6 -Primary Chain Tensioner
You can google "constant force springs" if you're curious about how 'constant pressure on the chain' is achieved.
Last edited by Expat1; 01-15-2013 at 08:59 AM. Reason: constant force mystery...
#332
01-15-2013, 09:02 AM
You received a 'normal-answer' from Hayden and HD would defend their OEM system the same way. Since we all know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder you face a dilemma: do you follow the crowd or do you go on your own to make sure it will work in the best conditions?
#333
01-15-2013, 09:16 AM
Road Master
#334
01-15-2013, 09:16 AM
Considering I was never one to follow the crowd (I am to analitical) and realizing that Hayden is avoiding my true concerns. It looks like I will either remove the Hayden all together or take your advise and remove the inner spring only after I examine that possibility further. At this time I'm waiting for Haydens response to my last letter to them (3 hour time zone difference) and then I'll decide. I know this, when using Haydens in my previous Harleys, To Tight was never an issue as it is with their latest design. For those that believe it's ok to leave it as tight as it is until it "brakes in" that's a matter of opinion and obviously not mine.
#335
01-15-2013, 09:26 AM
Please explain how you accomplished that ( let the shoe touch the base before letting the coils come into contact). and what if you turn one spring upside down would the 2 springs still have opposite windings? I'm unable to look at the springs at this time. I thought the inner spring maintains it's position due to the recess it fits in.
#336
01-15-2013, 09:30 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Please explain how you accomplished that ( let the shoe touch the base before letting the coils come into contact). and what if you turn one spring upside down would the 2 springs still have opposite windings? I'm unable to look at the springs at this time. I thought the inner spring maintains it's position due to the recess it fits in.
Last edited by golfblues; 01-15-2013 at 12:32 PM.
#337
01-15-2013, 09:32 AM
IMO the Hayden is a very nice device, better than the ratcheting type we have. In case of a sudden chain slack such as an IPB deterioration (inner cage moving forward) the M6 will not memorize its shorter/upper position.
Last edited by Expat1; 01-15-2013 at 10:11 AM. Reason: upper instead of lower position
#339
01-15-2013, 09:50 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
#340
01-15-2013, 10:05 AM
Please explain how you accomplished that ( let the shoe touch the base before letting the coils come into contact). and what if you turn one spring upside down would the 2 springs still have opposite windings? I'm unable to look at the springs at this time. I thought the inner spring maintains it's position due to the recess it fits in.
With both springs in the well, once compressed my shoe could not reach the surface of the tensioner because the spring coils were already in contact. This is why I recessed the well of my nylon shoe.
The outer spring is guided by the well.
After this little repair I am able to compress the shoe all the way down to the bottom surface of the tensioner with just one or the two springs.