Oil pressure loss, crankcase breather, heat and pinging
#1
Oil pressure loss, crankcase breather, heat and pinging
I ride a 2012 SG with stage 1 and TW 222 cams. I also run the DK Custom crankcase breather kit (2 tubes from breather bolts running into a little filter).
The last two weekends I have taken some rides and been caught in "leg roasting" and "left hand cramping" traffic jams that literally crawl for many miles. The first time it happened I noticed when I stopped my breather kit puked some oil on my cam case. This weekend I was caught in heavy traffic and my oil pressure light eventually came on and I had no oil pressure at idle. There was also a heaving pinging sound when taking off. The pressure would increase with speed but still lower than normal. Eventually when we cleared the traffic jam and started moving the pressure came up to near-normal and would stay around 8 at idle. Also, the pinging would disappear at that point.
I commute to work most days and I have not had any issues with oil pressure or leaking of the breather kit. I am assuming it's the overheating in the stop and go traffic jams that is causing this issue.
Anyone else run into this? I'm not sure why the breather kit pukes oil because when I check it after the ride there is no oil in the tubes or filter at all. You would think it would be full of oil which would cause the leaking out of the filter. Also, the very loud pinging sound I heard was only when the oil pressure dropped to zero at idle. Why would it disappear once I was able to keep the bike moving and at the next stop light the pressure gauge was reading 8?
The last two weekends I have taken some rides and been caught in "leg roasting" and "left hand cramping" traffic jams that literally crawl for many miles. The first time it happened I noticed when I stopped my breather kit puked some oil on my cam case. This weekend I was caught in heavy traffic and my oil pressure light eventually came on and I had no oil pressure at idle. There was also a heaving pinging sound when taking off. The pressure would increase with speed but still lower than normal. Eventually when we cleared the traffic jam and started moving the pressure came up to near-normal and would stay around 8 at idle. Also, the pinging would disappear at that point.
I commute to work most days and I have not had any issues with oil pressure or leaking of the breather kit. I am assuming it's the overheating in the stop and go traffic jams that is causing this issue.
Anyone else run into this? I'm not sure why the breather kit pukes oil because when I check it after the ride there is no oil in the tubes or filter at all. You would think it would be full of oil which would cause the leaking out of the filter. Also, the very loud pinging sound I heard was only when the oil pressure dropped to zero at idle. Why would it disappear once I was able to keep the bike moving and at the next stop light the pressure gauge was reading 8?
#2
Are you running dyno or syn oil? Do you have the Rear Cylinder Cutout turned on (Can't remember what its called)?
After my bike warms up the oil pressure use to go to 0 at idle when I had the 96" engine, thought that was normal? Who ever is changing your oil might be adding to much and after it heats up the oil is foaming up and coming out your breather.
Some recommend not filling your oil all the way to help prevent the oil spray, not my recommendation. I use synthetic and don't have any issues now with oil spray.
After my bike warms up the oil pressure use to go to 0 at idle when I had the 96" engine, thought that was normal? Who ever is changing your oil might be adding to much and after it heats up the oil is foaming up and coming out your breather.
Some recommend not filling your oil all the way to help prevent the oil spray, not my recommendation. I use synthetic and don't have any issues now with oil spray.
#3
I get a lot of blow by with sustained high speeds in the warmer/hot weather. The oil to full and foaming might be a possibility. The pinging is from the high heat buildup. Yes, check to make sure your bikes rear cylinder shuts down when it reaches a certain temp. With the ignition on and bike off or the bike running, just roll your throttle forward all the way and watch your cruise control light in the tech. When it turns green, your in the correct mode.
I got fed up with oil blow by and vented it to the ground. Those breather kits with the filters are a joke, when they get saturated enough, they will drip the oil onto your engine and defeat the purpose. BUT that's just one persons opinion.....
I got fed up with oil blow by and vented it to the ground. Those breather kits with the filters are a joke, when they get saturated enough, they will drip the oil onto your engine and defeat the purpose. BUT that's just one persons opinion.....
#4
#5
Are you running dyno or syn oil? Do you have the Rear Cylinder Cutout turned on (Can't remember what its called)?
After my bike warms up the oil pressure use to go to 0 at idle when I had the 96" engine, thought that was normal? Who ever is changing your oil might be adding to much and after it heats up the oil is foaming up and coming out your breather.
Some recommend not filling your oil all the way to help prevent the oil spray, not my recommendation. I use synthetic and don't have any issues now with oil spray.
After my bike warms up the oil pressure use to go to 0 at idle when I had the 96" engine, thought that was normal? Who ever is changing your oil might be adding to much and after it heats up the oil is foaming up and coming out your breather.
Some recommend not filling your oil all the way to help prevent the oil spray, not my recommendation. I use synthetic and don't have any issues now with oil spray.
#6
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Red Banks, Mississippi
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What you describe are classic symptoms of an engine that is MUCH too hot.
There could be something else going on, but I doubt it.
In the future, never let the engine run with no oil pressure, or with pinging. This will damage the engine.
You mention you have a Stage 1 with cams, but you did not say what was done regarding fuel management/timing.
It sounds like work is needed on your tune (fuel management/timing).
Other things you can do to cool it down are an oil cooler and/or a fan. The CVS by Wards Parts Werks ( http://www.wardspartswerks.com/products.html ) is particularly effective.
Another thing that reduces heat and engine load is the Outlaw High Performance Cleanable Oil Filter ( http://www.dkcustomproducts.com/Lubrication_c86.htm ).
There could be something else going on, but I doubt it.
In the future, never let the engine run with no oil pressure, or with pinging. This will damage the engine.
You mention you have a Stage 1 with cams, but you did not say what was done regarding fuel management/timing.
It sounds like work is needed on your tune (fuel management/timing).
Other things you can do to cool it down are an oil cooler and/or a fan. The CVS by Wards Parts Werks ( http://www.wardspartswerks.com/products.html ) is particularly effective.
Another thing that reduces heat and engine load is the Outlaw High Performance Cleanable Oil Filter ( http://www.dkcustomproducts.com/Lubrication_c86.htm ).
#7
What you describe are classic symptoms of an engine that is MUCH too hot.
There could be something else going on, but I doubt it.
In the future, never let the engine run with no oil pressure, or with pinging. This will damage the engine.
You mention you have a Stage 1 with cams, but you did not say what was done regarding fuel management/timing.
It sounds like work is needed on your tune (fuel management/timing).
Other things you can do to cool it down are an oil cooler and/or a fan. The CVS by Wards Parts Werks ( http://www.wardspartswerks.com/products.html ) is particularly effective.
Another thing that reduces heat and engine load is the Outlaw High Performance Cleanable Oil Filter ( http://www.dkcustomproducts.com/Lubrication_c86.htm ).
There could be something else going on, but I doubt it.
In the future, never let the engine run with no oil pressure, or with pinging. This will damage the engine.
You mention you have a Stage 1 with cams, but you did not say what was done regarding fuel management/timing.
It sounds like work is needed on your tune (fuel management/timing).
Other things you can do to cool it down are an oil cooler and/or a fan. The CVS by Wards Parts Werks ( http://www.wardspartswerks.com/products.html ) is particularly effective.
Another thing that reduces heat and engine load is the Outlaw High Performance Cleanable Oil Filter ( http://www.dkcustomproducts.com/Lubrication_c86.htm ).
I do run lowers on the bike and that could have contributed to the heat.
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#8
I fought blow-by / breather misting / puking for quite a while. I tried everything and none of the fixes mentioned on these forums ever worked for me.
Here's a lot of them:
- Run less oil
- run 1/4 of a quart low
- run 1/2 of a quart low
- run no more than half way up the dip stick
- run no more than 1/4 of the way up the dip stick
- Run Conventional Oil
- Run only Amsoil
- Run 50 weight oil
- Run 60 weight oil
- Add an oil cooler
- Check your engine for wet sumping:
- get it good and hot
- shut her down
- immediately hop off (< 1 min.) and remove the sump plug (not the oil plug)
- measure fluid
- if more than 3 ounce, you have a problem.
- check for Pinion shaft runout over 0.005
- If wet sumping - or Pinion shaft is wobbly
- check oil pump for damage or misalignment
- realign or replace (feuling is a good brand)
- check camplate for damage, defect or blockage
- replace if necessary (feuling is a good brand)
- check cam(s) for damage / wear
- replace if necessary
- Route the breathers to the ground, cannisters, filter, case...
- Replace umbrella valves in heads
- Drill return drains in heads
- Check for Reversion / fuel-oil mist "bouncing" out of the throttle-body
There were a lot of other things I tried and a lot of these are valid and might actually be your problem.
In my case, what actually fixed my issues was fixing something that I thought was totally unrelated.
I upgraded the compensator (2010 original equipment) to the screaming eagle version and replaced the stock primary chain tensioner with a Hayden M-6.
I didn't expect it, and I can only speculate that it smoothed the system's power delivery which was so choppy that it was actually causing the problem. I imagine that in the engine's stock state, the situation is not noticeable in most cases, but when I increased the power output it made all sorts of neat weaknesses appear.
Good luck sorting out your issues.
Here's a lot of them:
- Run less oil
- run 1/4 of a quart low
- run 1/2 of a quart low
- run no more than half way up the dip stick
- run no more than 1/4 of the way up the dip stick
- Run Conventional Oil
- Run only Amsoil
- Run 50 weight oil
- Run 60 weight oil
- Add an oil cooler
- Check your engine for wet sumping:
- get it good and hot
- shut her down
- immediately hop off (< 1 min.) and remove the sump plug (not the oil plug)
- measure fluid
- if more than 3 ounce, you have a problem.
- check for Pinion shaft runout over 0.005
- If wet sumping - or Pinion shaft is wobbly
- check oil pump for damage or misalignment
- realign or replace (feuling is a good brand)
- check camplate for damage, defect or blockage
- replace if necessary (feuling is a good brand)
- check cam(s) for damage / wear
- replace if necessary
- Route the breathers to the ground, cannisters, filter, case...
- Replace umbrella valves in heads
- Drill return drains in heads
- Check for Reversion / fuel-oil mist "bouncing" out of the throttle-body
There were a lot of other things I tried and a lot of these are valid and might actually be your problem.
In my case, what actually fixed my issues was fixing something that I thought was totally unrelated.
I upgraded the compensator (2010 original equipment) to the screaming eagle version and replaced the stock primary chain tensioner with a Hayden M-6.
I didn't expect it, and I can only speculate that it smoothed the system's power delivery which was so choppy that it was actually causing the problem. I imagine that in the engine's stock state, the situation is not noticeable in most cases, but when I increased the power output it made all sorts of neat weaknesses appear.
Good luck sorting out your issues.
#10
I fought blow-by / breather misting / puking for quite a while. I tried everything and none of the fixes mentioned on these forums ever worked for me.
Here's a lot of them:
- Run less oil
- run 1/4 of a quart low
- run 1/2 of a quart low
- run no more than half way up the dip stick
- run no more than 1/4 of the way up the dip stick
- Run Conventional Oil
- Run only Amsoil
- Run 50 weight oil
- Run 60 weight oil
- Add an oil cooler
- Check your engine for wet sumping:
- get it good and hot
- shut her down
- immediately hop off (< 1 min.) and remove the sump plug (not the oil plug)
- measure fluid
- if more than 3 ounce, you have a problem.
- check for Pinion shaft runout over 0.005
- If wet sumping - or Pinion shaft is wobbly
- check oil pump for damage or misalignment
- realign or replace (feuling is a good brand)
- check camplate for damage, defect or blockage
- replace if necessary (feuling is a good brand)
- check cam(s) for damage / wear
- replace if necessary
- Route the breathers to the ground, cannisters, filter, case...
- Replace umbrella valves in heads
- Drill return drains in heads
- Check for Reversion / fuel-oil mist "bouncing" out of the throttle-body
There were a lot of other things I tried and a lot of these are valid and might actually be your problem.
In my case, what actually fixed my issues was fixing something that I thought was totally unrelated.
I upgraded the compensator (2010 original equipment) to the screaming eagle version and replaced the stock primary chain tensioner with a Hayden M-6.
I didn't expect it, and I can only speculate that it smoothed the system's power delivery which was so choppy that it was actually causing the problem. I imagine that in the engine's stock state, the situation is not noticeable in most cases, but when I increased the power output it made all sorts of neat weaknesses appear.
Good luck sorting out your issues.
Here's a lot of them:
- Run less oil
- run 1/4 of a quart low
- run 1/2 of a quart low
- run no more than half way up the dip stick
- run no more than 1/4 of the way up the dip stick
- Run Conventional Oil
- Run only Amsoil
- Run 50 weight oil
- Run 60 weight oil
- Add an oil cooler
- Check your engine for wet sumping:
- get it good and hot
- shut her down
- immediately hop off (< 1 min.) and remove the sump plug (not the oil plug)
- measure fluid
- if more than 3 ounce, you have a problem.
- check for Pinion shaft runout over 0.005
- If wet sumping - or Pinion shaft is wobbly
- check oil pump for damage or misalignment
- realign or replace (feuling is a good brand)
- check camplate for damage, defect or blockage
- replace if necessary (feuling is a good brand)
- check cam(s) for damage / wear
- replace if necessary
- Route the breathers to the ground, cannisters, filter, case...
- Replace umbrella valves in heads
- Drill return drains in heads
- Check for Reversion / fuel-oil mist "bouncing" out of the throttle-body
There were a lot of other things I tried and a lot of these are valid and might actually be your problem.
In my case, what actually fixed my issues was fixing something that I thought was totally unrelated.
I upgraded the compensator (2010 original equipment) to the screaming eagle version and replaced the stock primary chain tensioner with a Hayden M-6.
I didn't expect it, and I can only speculate that it smoothed the system's power delivery which was so choppy that it was actually causing the problem. I imagine that in the engine's stock state, the situation is not noticeable in most cases, but when I increased the power output it made all sorts of neat weaknesses appear.
Good luck sorting out your issues.
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