Trike Engine Modifications
#21
Checking with a tech and am of the opinion the new 12mm o2 sensor may operate in it's present position with the cat material removed without sending a no heat code. If there is a little drivability problem I could put the o2's back up close to the head as the old 19mm o2 sensors were on the 09 Tri Glide. I will take an IR Temperature gun and measure the heat in the present position of the 02 sensors close to the cat and then move up toward the head and take readings to find the spot where the temperature is approxamately the same. The ECM should work with the 02 sensor if it is heated and not care where it is in the exhaust system as long as it is in the proper heat environment.
#22
o2 sensor location
From what I've heard they moved the O2 sensors lower to get they farther away from the exhaust port because they were having frequent O2 sensor failure in the old location. I can't see any reason why they need moved much closer to the exhaust ports for the heat. If you use a IR temp gun your going to need one that goes greater than 500 degrees. The cat on my 10 pegs my IR gun out. I've been looking at the who mess and I have to call Fuelmoto and see about fitment of the new head pipe. If it will or can be made to fit easily I'm going to go that direction. I'm assuming that Fuelmoto has spent the time making sure there is no issue with where they are locating the new 12mm O2 sensors.
This will keep the headpipe original looking when it goes back together. I am going to buy the SEPST and spend some time this winter with it. I am a little old to be going back to school but Harley makes you stay current. With the help of the fine people on this forum I will get this thing fixed.
Probably should not brainstorm or think outloud on the forum until I get it right but I think I will be ok with just leaving the o2's right where they are. Since they are self heating, any thoughts!
#23
o2 II
I bet you are correct also with fuelmotto thinking ahead on the sensors, the pipe will have the bungs for both the 09 and the 2010 o2 sensors I hear. I think they are in the positions they were in for their respective year. 19mm up high on the pipe closer to the cylinder as in 09 and the 12mm 4 wire heated down in front of where the cat would be,"if it had a Cat" as they are on the 2010's. If they have not changed their minds by now I don't know why they are putting the 09 19mm bungs in the pipe at all.
I can't see why anyone would replace an 09 headpipe since they don't have a cat.
I can't see why anyone would replace an 09 headpipe since they don't have a cat.
#24
I forget where I was on the forum... Touring, exhaust. Can't remember, but I saw Fuelmoto come back to someone else saying that the header for the TG was different than the FLHT. Two of us asked a followup and were told that due to extensive retooling that Fuelmoto wouldn't be making a head pipe for our TGs. I'll go through my posts and then come back here and link to that thread. OK here it is.
The Tri Glide headpipe is different than our headpipe and it would require a fair amount of retooling and expense for us to build a headpipe for them. Once we get thru the first production run this may be something we can consider. As far tuners, we tune with every platform out there and use the unit that best fits the customers needs based on several factors, however we only develop calibrations in house for our map support database with Dynojet products which work excellent and allow us to fully support the product to the highest degree for the applications we work with. This is based on 15 years of tuning thousands of bikes.
Last edited by TheBobs; 09-30-2009 at 06:00 PM.
#25
Bummer
I forget where I was on the forum... Touring, exhaust. Can't remember, but I saw Fuelmoto come back to someone else saying that the header for the TG was different than the FLHT. Two of us asked a followup and were told that due to extensive retooling that Fuelmoto wouldn't be making a head pipe for our TGs. I'll go through my posts and then come back here and link to that thread. OK here it is.
I had already determined to do my original pipe, the fuelmotto would be to obvious and a dead give away. Of course the price is always a factor. It would have been nice for some guys to use the fuelmotto and have thier original to put back on if they broke something major and had to take it back to the dealer.
Thanks again for the info, I will go back and see if I can find my email and response. I am positive I asked about the Tri Glide pipe.
#26
Thanks for the heads up. I had emailed them and they told me they were indevelopment and projected and Oct. release date. I quess when you count the number of Tri's out there as opposed to the other touring market it would be a lot of tooling expense for a low production unit.
I had already determined to do my original pipe, the fuelmotto would be to obvious and a dead give away. Of course the price is always a factor. It would have been nice for some guys to use the fuelmotto and have thier original to put back on if they broke something major and had to take it back to the dealer.
Thanks again for the info, I will go back and see if I can find my email and response. I am positive I asked about the Tri Glide pipe.
I had already determined to do my original pipe, the fuelmotto would be to obvious and a dead give away. Of course the price is always a factor. It would have been nice for some guys to use the fuelmotto and have thier original to put back on if they broke something major and had to take it back to the dealer.
Thanks again for the info, I will go back and see if I can find my email and response. I am positive I asked about the Tri Glide pipe.
#27
Winter Projects
I called Fulemoto yesterday and the guy I 1st talked 2 said the head pipe would fit. I ask him if he was sure because the head pipe for the 2 wheel touring and the triglide where 2 different part numbers, and the triglide was longer. He went and ask Jamie who said it won't fit and they may look into it later on. I won't cut up the stock head pipe for a couple reasons. I don't care to replace it if I need to have it and the 2nd is when I look at the O2 sensor placement I can see how it could possibly get some cross talk between the sensors. I have thought about either getting the Fulemoto pipe and then having a muffler shop make the extension that I need on the right side or getting a 09 non cat head pipe and adding the O2 bungs to it. Looking at the pipe on my dads and mine I could locate the sensors farther apart from one and other which should minimize chances of cross talk, or at least I hope. I'm taking my time and going slow on this one because I don't care to toss money away chasing it. This is one reason I'm so pissed at Harley Davidson, I shouldn't have to be doing this but they care more to build the image and let the consumer fix the faults.
Of course this is just my thinking at the moment, it changes daily as new information comes in. If I were not confident I could take it apart and put it back together and make it look untouched I would not fool with it. Even if I get lucky as you said why should I have to and how many Tri Owners happen to be certified welders with the equipment and the expertise to do so. Not to mention having to buck the EPA, all states are not as far behind on the monitoring as East Ky. and most owners are going to shy away from this route. Harley has put us in an awkward, unpredictable and unessessary position. This is not what I wanted to buy when I plunked the money down for their product.
I am partially at fault for not researching the Trike a little further, had no warning Harley was going to hang a Cat on the Trike but should have known it was coming.
Harley could be working with us a little closer, they have a winner here but all the positive aspects of that Trike are going to be overshadowed by the negative of the underpowered, heat condition they built into an otherwise fine machine. The word of mouth will hurt sales on that Trike and one would think they would want to work with the people who bought one to help fix the problem instead of going into denial.
The reasonable things we can legally do, the fan, the Jagg 10 Row, the larger volume oil pan are within the normal mods most of us would do just to get a little extended engine life. Hell I do it to some of my offroad vehicles and high performance vehicles. Same thing, electric fan, high volume oil pan, trans cooler to help keep the heat load off the engine. I would not be complaining about making reasonable mods no more than the people who buy the pipes and the stage I for performance gains.
Harley however built into this machine a heat problem that is beyond the expertise of the average buyer to work around and that is where the success or failure of a procuct lays. The overall satisfaction with a product by the average buyer. Even if and when we get ours fixed the problems still out there will come back to haunt Harley.
Last edited by coupe55; 10-01-2009 at 09:42 AM.
#28
I was really disappointed when I saw their answer. I bet if they sell a bunch of the headpipes for the rest of the touring line, they'll come take care of us too. But in the mean time this darn thing is HOT!!!
I also read some folk here and in other threads briefly talking about ceramic coatings. Has anyone given it any serious thought. My point of reference would be my 351C. I have Aussie heads which make 11.5:1. Lots of heat. I switched to ceramic coated headers because my painted headers were frying my starter and spark plug wires. After switching to ceramic, I could almost touch the primaries before I could feel any serious heat. It was, surprisingly, a big difference. I wonder if we would get the same benefit of throwing some jet hot or other baked on coating on the whole head pipe? Even if it was a 25% reduction, I wonder if it would make a difference. I bet the cat would work better too if the heat stayed in the header.
On another note, I saw some discussion earlier in this thread about making sure the O2 sensors stayed hot enough. I read somewhere that the 2010s are heated sensors, so does it really matter where they are in the pipe as long as they are upwind of the cat?
I also read some folk here and in other threads briefly talking about ceramic coatings. Has anyone given it any serious thought. My point of reference would be my 351C. I have Aussie heads which make 11.5:1. Lots of heat. I switched to ceramic coated headers because my painted headers were frying my starter and spark plug wires. After switching to ceramic, I could almost touch the primaries before I could feel any serious heat. It was, surprisingly, a big difference. I wonder if we would get the same benefit of throwing some jet hot or other baked on coating on the whole head pipe? Even if it was a 25% reduction, I wonder if it would make a difference. I bet the cat would work better too if the heat stayed in the header.
On another note, I saw some discussion earlier in this thread about making sure the O2 sensors stayed hot enough. I read somewhere that the 2010s are heated sensors, so does it really matter where they are in the pipe as long as they are upwind of the cat?
Last edited by TheBobs; 10-01-2009 at 09:49 AM.
#29
I also read some folk here and in other threads briefly talking about ceramic coatings. Has anyone given it any serious thought. My point of reference would be my 351C. I have Aussie heads which make 11.5:1. Lots of heat. I switched to ceramic coated headers because my painted headers were frying my starter and spark plug wires. After switching to ceramic, I could almost touch the primaries before I could feel any serious heat. It was, surprisingly, a big difference. I wonder if we would get the same benefit of throwing some jet hot or other baked on coating on the whole head pipe? Even if it was a 25% reduction, I wonder if it would make a difference. I bet the cat would work better too if the heat stayed in the header.
#30
hey guys, i know this thread is about TG engine mods, but i wanted to chime in and say that i am doin a few mods to my engine, right now. i just dropped her off at the shop.
flow job on the heads, bumping up my ol' 88" to 95", S&S gear drive kit, Andrews H55 cams and Bassanni prostreet exhaust!
i'm gonna need wheelie bars on this bitch when i'm done! expecting me to break 100hp/100fpt easy. i hope their right! i need that power to move my big ***! haha...
albert
flow job on the heads, bumping up my ol' 88" to 95", S&S gear drive kit, Andrews H55 cams and Bassanni prostreet exhaust!
i'm gonna need wheelie bars on this bitch when i'm done! expecting me to break 100hp/100fpt easy. i hope their right! i need that power to move my big ***! haha...
albert
Last edited by grimm; 10-01-2009 at 02:54 PM.