Exhaust System Topics New and old exhaust system discussions. Fitment issues to sound bites and suggestions. Post them here.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Jekill and Hyde

TQ vs. HP

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 02-04-2009, 11:26 AM
stinkfist's Avatar
stinkfist
stinkfist is offline
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default TQ vs. HP

I recently had my 96" on an 07 Fatboy bored out to a 103" and had the heads flowed, which I understand from my builder means that the combustion chambers were reshaped (balanced), decks were shaved down and a larger intake valve was added. No porting.
A few months before that I had added a Crane 1-6001 cam which is a relatively mild midrange cam.
I felt this was probaby fitting since I rarely reach/exceed 4000rpm. I didn't want to fight with pinging or have to run high rpms just to make the bike ridable. I wanted to maximize the usable power I could get from the bike without flirting with reliability issues.
So I got her dynoed last weekend at a shop independent of the builder and she produced 93HP and 110Ft-Lbs TQ. TQ came on early, peaked around 3500rpm.
The shop insisted that these were great numbers for my build and went on an on that torque is what I really want if I'm going to ride in the low to midrange.
But I've also been told that the cams I have are holding the bike back in terms of HP. So I'd like to hear your opinions on what if anything I should do to improve the build.
Thanks,
 
  #2  
Old 02-04-2009, 02:21 PM
sniper77's Avatar
sniper77
sniper77 is offline
Outstanding HDF Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 3,352
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

I'm not familiar with your cam selection but from reading your comments it appears you have built the bike for everyday riding and not bumping the rev limiter on every shift (where high Hp motors have to live).

If you look at dyno sheets for any engine you will see Hp #s increase steadily as RPMs increase. To build an engine to develop higher Hp#s you need a cam with a longer duration, something in the 260 range. Having a cam with a longer duration will kill the low end torque that makes twisting the throttle such a breath-taking experience when the engine is just idling along the freeway in 6th gear.

Big Hp is all about the engine above 5250 RPMs, where most people that just ride never go. That is why short duration, low-to-medium lift cams are chosen for so many of these machines.

To be honest, the 100 year old design of the engine isn't built for running @ RPMs that develop high HP. Reliability comes into play when you try to take something that wasn't made to run a certain way and build it to do just that. I'm of the belief that if you want a 150 Hp street burner you should find something with a tiny crankshaft that will spin to 14K RPMs and go pull wheelies @ 125MPH until your heart is satisfied but, if you want a bike that will pull a neighbors tree down when a property dispute arises, then stay with a long stroke, low RPM machine like H-D built. Enjoy the Tq and forget about the Hp.
 
  #3  
Old 02-04-2009, 02:48 PM
hpfatboy's Avatar
hpfatboy
hpfatboy is offline
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,436
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

This cam is affecting where your peak numbers are for sure, and your peak hp. Still dont understand not doing the most important part of your HEADS, THE PORTING. For a 103 in. i would be demanding better numbers, or i would be PISSED OFF. Get rid of that cam , try the WOODS or a HQ cam suitable for a 103 in. motor and im sure youll be pleased with results. By the way TQ is a lot more fun than HP.
 

Last edited by hpfatboy; 02-05-2009 at 05:33 AM.
  #4  
Old 02-04-2009, 03:11 PM
I CUT 1's Avatar
I CUT 1
I CUT 1 is offline
Tourer
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ruffin, North Carolina
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Sniper77 is right, these are like 2 wheeled tractors. I think of them as a warmed-up John Deere two cylinder "putt-putt". Lots of power, noise, and fun.
 
  #5  
Old 02-04-2009, 03:33 PM
spmullen's Avatar
spmullen
spmullen is offline
Advanced
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

HP and torque numbers are useless without seeing the actual power curve. Considering the gearing in the 07> later bikes has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with HD meeting EPA regulations, power curves on the new bikes is more important on the new bikes under 3500 than it ever was on the 06<earlier bikes.

Too many riders assume that larger intake ports are a good thing. This is not a guarantee of good power. High air velocity is what is needed on these new motors which comes from proper reshaping of the intake port, not bigger valves. When there are 90HP/105ft.lb. torque bone stock TC96 engines with bolt-in cams out there, it tends to open up some questions about shops that put together 103 engines with modified heads that are not breaking 100HP/110ft.lb.

But more important would be what the torque curve looks like below 4000 and if the engine runs detonation free below 2500 RPMs.
 
  #6  
Old 02-04-2009, 04:32 PM
drtheo's Avatar
drtheo
drtheo is offline
Tourer
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Check out the woods Knight Prowler cams, their torque numbers are awesome, but they usually have some head work done too. I think that the heads are the limiting factor. For the money, it is without a doubt worth it, then you can realize the full potential of your build
 
  #7  
Old 02-04-2009, 06:35 PM
spmullen's Avatar
spmullen
spmullen is offline
Advanced
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Bobby Woods is a very talented engine builder and cam designer. His short duration, short overlap designs are quite good, but his cam designs are exceptionally aggressive. The ramps raise/lower the valves very quickly, which is very good for power, but tend to beat the valve train to death. As long as long engine life is not a major criteria, Woods is a good choice. But you can install more conservative choices that will make similar power and not put as much stress on the valve train.
 
  #8  
Old 02-04-2009, 09:52 PM
Rail's Avatar
Rail
Rail is offline
Road Master

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 914
Received 19 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

Carrol Shelby said it best 40 years ago.. HP sells cars; torque wins races... I like torque
 
  #9  
Old 02-04-2009, 10:43 PM
KegStand's Avatar
KegStand
KegStand is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default 107 cam

steve
what cam would you recommend for a 107" 08. with ported heads.
it is going in a softail custom. I was thinking a woods 408-44 do you have better choice for me?
 
  #10  
Old 02-05-2009, 05:32 AM
hpfatboy's Avatar
hpfatboy
hpfatboy is offline
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,436
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by spmullen
Bobby Woods is a very talented engine builder and cam designer. His short duration, short overlap designs are quite good, but his cam designs are exceptionally aggressive. The ramps raise/lower the valves very quickly, which is very good for power, but tend to beat the valve train to death. As long as long engine life is not a major criteria, Woods is a good choice. But you can install more conservative choices that will make similar power and not put as much stress on the valve train.
Im a real FUSSY ***** about my bike, and especially my engine. My builder knows me well, and the way i am. If he thought for 1 min. that the WOODS cam would beat my VALVE TRAIN TO DEATH, he would not have used them. And i would have never let him install this cam in my bike. Dont know where you heard this SH_T. But it is just that, BULL SH_T! A more conservative cam producing big tq, name some please. Thats what WOODS cams are known for, big tq and thats why guys buy them and use them. If they were going to DESTROY everybodys valve train, then who in there right mind would use them. NOT ME.
 

Last edited by hpfatboy; 02-05-2009 at 05:42 AM.


Quick Reply: TQ vs. HP



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:30 AM.