I'm considering a power commander or fuelpak for my '08 103" FLHTP. Can't spend a lot on a tuner, not to mention dyno time. I've done a lot of reading and it seems a lot more people have the PC than the FP.

The thing that somehow bothers me is getting rid of the O2 sensors with the PC. That seems like going backward with technology to me. How does this actually work when the bike is normally in closed loop mode? The PC maps now control idle and partial throttle instead of the O2 sensors? Anybody with a PC care to comment?

Do they come with plugs for the O2 sensor? Do they come with a "dummy plug" for the O2 wiring harness?

The PC site has a relatively long list of maps, but none real close to my equipment. Vance and Hines already emailed me a map for my bike's equip. How good is Dynojet's support in this respect?

 

02 sensors just tell the ECU whether the bike is running richer or leaner than the map set point, and the ECU makes AFR adjustments. O2 sensors do not control idle and partial throttle directly.

If you get your PC from Fuel Moto, they will set you up with the right map.They come with plugs for the O2 sensor connectors.

With the PC the bike runs open loop, real AFR blind similar to bikes before O2 sensors came on the scene, and they could be made to run well. The PC just guesses at what fuel is needed based on all the other inputs. They guess pretty well, however, but need to be on the conservative side (extra rich) because there is no adapting to fuel quality. Tuners with Dynojet dynos can custom tune a PC pretty quickly and cheaply. A lot of guys ride them.

A few years ago the FP and Xieds were the rage, so you get extra fuel when you need it, retain the 02s for adaptability, and run a tad richer at cruise that the factory settings.

At the moment for just a little more money, the TTS tuning kit offers the best solution for most, especially those that like to tinker. With it you custom tune your map (with fine adjustments) for all around performance, and get to retain all the nifty stock ECU features that make for a trouble free and satisfying ride.

 

Very good post, Coldcase!!!

 

I recently purchased and installed a PCV and mine did not come with any plugs. Is this something they just started doing? I disconnected the O2 sensors at the top underneath the side cover, taped them off and left the sensors in the headpipe.

 

I had the same concerns as you. I was using a fuel pak for quite a while and it does nothing in closed loop, so it was making the bike run lean 80% of the time while cruising. I ended up taking it off for XIeds instead. I had a better ride and throttle repsonse.

Just recently I put on a power commander and I cannot stress how much better it is than using a fuel pak or xieds. You do get o2 eliminators. This tricks the ECU into thinking they are still there. Also, fwiw, the stock u2 sensors are not wide band, they are switching narrow band and pretty much suck.

Vance and hines tech support sucks. Call back and ask the same question and you'll gets different answer.

IMO the PCV is leaps and bounds better performance wise.

 

It depends on what year and model bike. If a 2010 and up touring, like you have, then none is needed. If the bike has the older style sensors then you should get the 02 Eliminators with the product.

 

The stock sensors are actually very accurate over a range of about 14.2 to 14.8 AFR (or equivalent lambda) and are reliable, with a long life. They won't give you feedback when you want to run an WOT AFR of 13.2. The kind of wideband O2 sensors you can get for your street bike may also suck from your POV as they are also exactly the same switching type sensor but with an ion pump to extent the measurement range. Because of technical issues with ion pumps and variations dependent on exhaust pressures and temperatures, they are hard to get to run accurately enough on the street to make a difference over just calibrating the VEs and guessing based on whats happening during closed loop cruising. They are also not as long lived and more easily damaged. Not saying that so called WB O2s are bad, and are the best solution for some, but they seem to have a lot of marketing hype that goes with them to justiy the significant cost. Just saying that NB and WB have basically the same switching sensor technology. Both suck with your criteria.

 

I'm not saying the stock sensors are useless for what the H-D factory intended them for, or that they are not long lasting. But what it comes down to is they are only able to sense the bike is either running or not running at 14.7. That's it.

My point is that for the o2 feedback to really be useful, in the way that we would like, for enriching our fuel mixture and helping our engines run better, then wide band sensors are required.

Getting rid of the stock Harley sensors for the power commander (to me) was a much better move and I had wish I had done it sooner.

 

NB sensors can be used to around 14.4- 14.3. AND are used for fuel control. That PV WB stuff does NOT do fuel control. All it does is update the map installed. That's cool and all... but with gas getting crappier and crappier...

I would rather have the fuel control.. Fuel control is instantaneous minute adjustments to Lambda tables using the Adaptive Fuel Values. The key here is this all happens in an instant while the bike is running on down the road. So far... except for TTS, SEPST, and Power Vision... NO other tuner I know uses the AFVs as written in the stock Delphi ECM. Those wide bands on that AT100 you like so much... those do NOT adapt to fuel. They do NOT alter the ECM in any way in an instant. What they do is allow one to fine tune their map. Well... goody on that. Fine tuning any map installed is a VERY GOOD THING, but....gas comes by the tankful and I like my bike to see and adjust per tankful and not some 1990's 'fine tune' thing.

I use WBs with my WEGO IIID, and TTS for everyday tuning needs.... with the stock MOCO O2 sensors intact and working.

In that fashion... I get WOT mapping AND fuel control.

 

I have a 2015 Dyna StreetBob, its all stock except the V&H straight shot slip ons (no controller, no air filter). My o2 sensor got damaged and started triggering error codes (VINERR) so the dealer disconnected it and told me to ride without the O2 sensor.

He said I didn't needed it that much. How accurate is this? Should I try to get that sensor fixed or keep riding without it? By the way the exhaust sound changed significantly and I am getting a lot less popping now..