Ok here is some background. I have over 25 years automotive experience but new to Tuning. I have a 2011 Road King with Arlen Ness Big Sucker Air Filter, SE-254E cams, V&H Twin Slash Rounds, V&H True Dual. I have had it tuned when all the work was done and it ran ok but seemed to me it was still be held back and seemed to run to hot ETMPS would kick in even on a 75 degree day. So I decided to look at the tune myself. Loaded the software and when I looked at what was installed as a base MAP was no were near what I had (high compression heads,big bore cylinders, race exhaust). I found a MAP that was closer and had my cam reset the constrants for my 96 and not 103. Followed the instructions about making records and did 12. Loaded them as per the instructions and got new working VE Tables. Changed the Acell Enrichment, Decel Enleanment, Throttle responsitivy reflashed the ECM and road test. The bike runs much better stronger and cooler. Have a slight decel pop closed throttle may have lower Decel Enleanment Table some more, also it has a slight upshift pop not all the time on the 2-3 shift which has been there since new. First it is amazing when the right stuff is done how much different it runs. My questions are What is VE I understand it a little but a little confused of how to use it. As per the insturctions if you want the working VE tables within 5% of the orginal VE Tables (I'm assuming from BASE MAP) why not just use that instead of making recordings and adjust the other tables as needed. I do see differences rom the Orginal (base MAP) Table and my New Working Table. Looking for assistance to help clarify my issue

 

Not an expert, but you want the ve tables to be within the percentages run to run! not from the originals. Once they are in that range run to run your done with the ve's unless you play with the egr's and make radical timing changes, in which case you should follow up with a couple of vtune runs to evaluate the changes on the ve tables. Look at the graph for the ve tables, it is a good way to see how the tune looks. The rest is experimenting to get rid of the popping. Look up threads about exhaust popping in tts thread or the general tuning forum. There are plenty of people here to help.

 

So Wmitz what you are saying is now that I got a good cal in the bike. I should look at the VE's front and rear in the Data Logge window and watch the graph of each and then make adjustment to the working tables to the graphs to follow each other and also compare to the Orginal Base MAP VE Tables. Or I could go back and set the VCI to Smart Tune and do some more recordings and see were the tables take me.

 

VE: Volumetric Efficiency.

It's basically how your engine breaths.
The VEs measure how well your engine passes air at any given speed and is effected by such things as intake size, exhaust and cams.
The VEs are the foundation of a good tune, the ecm uses the VE tables in open loop so it can accurately control the desired amount of fuel at the selected time and place.

 

VE or volumetric efficiency is simply a measurement of the motor's air flow at different kPa & rpm settings. The VE's must be accurate to get the AFR tables set accurately.

Because each bike (and each cylinder) has a slightly different air flow through its intake and exhaust routes, no two bikes will have the same numbers. Yes, it is possible to find ones that are close (and that's why one should try to get a base map that's close for a starting point) but to rely on a map set up for another bike is generally not a good idea.

So, the starting map has VE numbers that are just a starting point. One should see changes in those numbers as the tuning data runs progress. The starting map may have been made on a motor that had much better air flow in some areas and not so good in others.

Again, not to beat this to death, but if you don't get the VE's right to begin with, the AFR's will be off too. Yes, there is some "learning" ability in each program but only to a point. If your VE's are too far out, the program may not be able to "find" the correct point for an accurate AFR. And without accurate VE's, the rest of the map might be out of whack too.

So, anything that changes the air flow will cause the VE's to change too. Once the VE's change, the rest of the map begins to reflect those changes...some may not be very noticeable and others can cause the bike to run like crap or maybe not run at all.

Hope that helps!

 

The original ve map is just a starting point, whatever tuner you are using. Every bike breathes differently, even if they have the same parts. Once you start the tuning process the original ve map is left behind. The new values represent your engine and the parts. Whether it is auto tune or vtune, the object is to get the cells to stay in a range less than 5%. They will always change a little. So if you do say three or four runs and the numbers stay in the 5% or less it is considered stable. You should use a base map to start with out any changes to start, and build on that. Apply the changes to one map, run after run until it is stable or if the tuner gives you a new tune use it. Number any new tune to keep track of and flash into the ECM/bike and tune that. Hope this sheds some light.

 

Another question since I have already done Smart Tune. If I want to make more recordings do I have to check the Smart Tune box again in the Reflash Screen or can I just set up the VCI to record and then down load those into the Smart Tune VE Tables and then follow Generate, Interpolate, Update and save. Little confused still about using Smart Tune, espicially about redoing the Smart Tune. Thanks all for the assistance and better explanation of VE. Maybe also I should look at my VE Tables to make sure that it was updated after the first set of recordings. What is the best the way to ride when doing the recordings? I find it hard to follow the way they say in the instructions since I'm riding around town. Could I just ride the bike normally and just roll on and off the throttle and hold steady speed in the different gears.

 

It tends to help to review previous data runs and verify that information is being used in the new map.

Once the cells begin to show little or no change, it's generally safe to assume enough good data has be captured.


Generally speaking, ride the bike somewhat conservatively so you can collect data in various rpm/kPa cells. It takes a few seconds at constant throttle/load settings to get good data.

Once you have some basic data, try to increase the load - i.e. take a passenger if possible or find some long hills to climb.

Just remember that it becomes more difficult to collect good data in the high rpm/kPa cells if you're riding on the street. Normal everyday riding doesn't hit those areas anyway so it's not that important to risk a ticket or accident to populate those cells.

Hope that helps!

 

Not to hi jack this thread but I have a VE table question. If you manually change the VE tables by less than 5% do those values stay? Or does the ECM overwrite them? Just trying to understand how this works. Thanks.

 

Excellent thread, and it's about a question I've had...

Like the OP, I'm not a virgin when it comes to engines and EFI (I actually know what a kiloPascal is! ), but I'm just starting to study the software.

Here's my dumb question for the day: I do understand where we want the AFR tables to be, but I assume that you actually make the changes in the VE tables, and then the corresponding results show up in the AFR tables, correct? In other words, you don't make direct changes to the AFR tables?

Tia for the assistance!