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Old 05-29-2009, 08:29 PM
Sash302 Sash302 is offline
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Question I come across pinion shaft runout allot!!!!

Hey guys,I come across this pinion runout allot on the net, what is the deal with this?do tween cam motors have a problem whit this?
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:12 PM
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It's not a twincam problem in so much as a crank design issue. If the press fit isn't up to snuff between the crank pin and the wheels it could slip in rotation and cause pinion and sprocket shaft runout. Get too much pinion runout and the oil pump will destroy itself as there's not at lot of clearance in there. Some cranks are good (tight), some not as much and can even slip in stock engines. There is however a design limit at which even the good ones will slip. It's been said in the neighbourhood of 120 hp. No way to really know what you have, so if you plan on pushing some hp it's good insurance to have the crank gone over and pro plugged and welded. It's the only sure way to know what you're working with. Another option now is the R&R 5 pc tapered crank that's said to be virtually slip proof. I own one of the not so good ones
Ron

Last edited by rbabos; 05-29-2009 at 09:15 PM..
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:34 PM
Sash302 Sash302 is offline
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so what are the symptoms for bad shaft? any particular model years have this problem or all harley are made that way?
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:38 PM
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I cant believe harley know this problem and still sale the bikes like that ,that is stupid!this is my first harley I ever own and if I have problem like that I'll junk that mother f*&%^$ and never gonna buy another harley again,this bikes are not chip to be having a problems like that...........crazy.....
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Old 05-29-2009, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sash302 View Post
so what are the symptoms for bad shaft? any particular model years have this problem or all harley are made that way?
The first symptom would be an unexplained increase in vibrations. Later down the road two things can happen. The scavange gerotor could fail causing all you oil to end up in the crankcase, or the feed gerotor blow up and you lose all oil pressure, while the particals end up going into vital parts of the engine. There could also be a loss of oil pressure prior to these two as a result of the pinion bushing being beat to rat chit and having large clearance. This happens slowly over time. While the bushing is in good shape the pump is safe from destruction. While any pressed crank is capable of slipping it would seem the 07s were most notable for the problem. Quality control must have been slack or something.
Ron

Last edited by rbabos; 05-29-2009 at 10:05 PM..
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Old 05-29-2009, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Sash302 View Post
I cant believe harley know this problem and still sale the bikes like that ,that is stupid!this is my first harley I ever own and if I have problem like that I'll junk that mother f*&%^$ and never gonna buy another harley again,this bikes are not chip to be having a problems like that...........crazy.....
I know exactly how you feel. The difference is you may have a good one and never have any problem at all. I've gone through the (deal the pos) and get a Raider instead, but decided to redo the engine and go 113. Figured for what I'd lose in the deal $ wise I'd just fix the damn thing and make it right. For every screw up HD makes there is an aftermarket part that's usually better. In your case enjoy your ride and don't worry about it. While it happens, the internet paints a picture like it's every other bike. Not at all like that. There are an awefull lot of trouble free Harleys tearing around out there. I'm just a magnet for f ups
Ron
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Old 05-29-2009, 10:58 PM
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Excessive flywheel runout (over .001 or .002) was rare until the 96 inch motors came out. The longer 4 3/8 stroke puts more stress on the whole crank/flywheel assembly. The combination of a weak left side roller bearing and poorly fitted flywheels is a disaster in the making. Personally, I'm staying at stage 1 and keeping the revs down until I have the cash to have the cases split and the flywheels trued and welded. I'm not sure if I have slipped flywheels but my bike vibrates noticeably more then a friends 02 Fat Boy.
It boggles my mind that a company that builds a bullet proof liquid cooled twin (V-ROD) cuts so many corners building an engine that's suposed to be their bread and butter.

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Old 05-29-2009, 11:27 PM
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:00 AM
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That first year stroked crank was an issue for sure.

Sasha you have an 09'....They may be pressing those cranks differently now. Dont even stress it until you go for a big badass build. At that point depending on how radical you are going have the crank welded.

The 07's were known for that issue. I dunno about the 08-09's. My guess is that Rbabos knows though!

Certainly not worth losing any sleep over on a stocker or stage 1 bike.

I had a guy tell me that at some point in a built motor they will all begin to runout....

Babos No Warranty love from Harley on yer' slipped crank?
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Old 05-30-2009, 09:16 AM
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One of the the things I'm looking into to help prevent runout induced oil pump damage is the new R&R billet cam plate. There was a great article in American Iron. It actually helps support the flywheel assembly and stablizes the pinion shaft. The only downside is it's expensive and requires the use of one of R&R's gear drive cams.
Harley has covered their butts in the warranty department by raising flywheel end-play specs the last few years. End play specs went from .005 in 2006 to .010 in 2007 to .013 in 2009. My guess is that H-D are counting on most twin cam owners breaking 24 months before racking up enough miles to encounter engine damage (oil pump, cam plate) due to this problem. Pretty shabby treatment consitering H-D customers are some of the most brand loyal customers in the world.

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Old 05-30-2009, 09:16 AM
 
 
 
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