I posted this last week on the mechanical section without any luck so I'm posting here.


I have a buddy who I am posting for. He has a 2002 Electra Glide, fuel injection, true duals, gear driven cams. This bike will run just fine all year. Then when he takes a long run at about the 6 hour mark or 350 miles it will begins to run rough, missing, sputtering, bucking. This has been to different Harley Dealers while on these cross country trips when this begins to try to fix it. They have changed 3 Power Commanders, 1 ECM, pulled the tank claiming trash, changed fuel filters, changed battery, Tank Fuel lines, claimed water in fuel, cleaned injectors, he had the voltage regulator and stator changed last year, battery cables checked several times. This is all I can remember.
He rides this bike all year and it runs fine. He can ride tis bike all day locally and stay on bike making stops through out the day and go 300 miles a day doing this and runs fine. But when making a long cross country run only stopping to fuel up this is when the problems begin. This last run they first claimed the Power Commander, then that the ECM was fried when they pulled the Power Commander. The next day they pulled the tank and cleaned tank and injectors. Gave him the bike back and it ran good. 300 miles on the way home it began acting up agin and he barely made it home.
New spark plugs have been installed along with wires
Fuel pump pressure has been tested and in limits.
Ran bike with fuel cap off and did not clear the problem.
Second day after being home bike ran good. One week later after sitting ran bad again this week.

 

Im not sure im not a motorcycle mechanic but a guy that my indy set up to run to sturgis with me was on a sportster and had an issue similar to this turned out to be his cam position sensor and ignition. When he got it back home my indy put in a dyna dual fire ignition for him. Not sure if the problem could be the same or not considering the difference in motors and one is fuel injected the other was carbed but might want to take a look at that as the problem sounds identical. The problem was the heat of runnin then stoppin gettin gas buildin more heat not moving then goin again. Each time he had an issue it was right after fueling up.

 

Sounds like it is time to get rid of it to me.

 

spark plugs every 3000 miles. i didnt see that on your list

 

just a guess but something is getting heat soaked, coils can have heat problems.

 

First thing to come to mind is a partially clogged fuel tank vent and/or vent hose. But I doubt that you can run an 02 for 300 miles without refueling so the idea of a sensor getting too hot and failing is a good guess. Old goldwings would run bad after a long run when the ignitors (crank position sensors) were going bad. Cool it down and it ran fine.

 

OR


The 02 FLHTCUI had a problem with the wires that went to the injectors. The wire was strapped to the frame causing the wire to pull and break internally causing a misfire. I had this happen to the front injector wire and it would usually occur when the bike was hot.

 

This post is information that I am giving those who may need it as an alternative to check if this problem occurs. I am no Harley factory mechanic and I am not attempting to bash any here. Just telling it like it came to me and what i found that solved the problem.

Symptoms:
idles fine, no check engine light, bucks and backfires between take off speeds and 65-70 mph.

2 Harley Dealers unable to resolve issue in two separate states on two separate rides. Things they tried. Blamed Power commander and changed it out twice. Changed Engine temp sensor. Changed Plugs. Flushed tank and cleaned injectors. During this time Power Commander was discontinued and bike owner was charged to install Harley Chip at owners consent on second ride. ECM was burnt up during dealer work 2nd ride and exchanged by Dealer at no charge. All of these things done put a band-aid on the problem for 200 miles and the issue returned. Most would just say bad Gas.

What I found: Disclaimer :I am an independent old school shade tree harley mechanic with no factory training at all who learned from the same.

First thing I did was understand that there was no check engine light and neither of the factory dealers who hooked the thing up to their computers could diagnose with a computer, the issue.

Bucking, Loss of power and backfiring at times through the intake to me mean too much fuel to the cylinder.

Put the bike on the lift and took a look at the color of the exhaust pipes at the back. The right pipe was darker than the left. To me this means that the front cylinder is running richer than the rear.

Pulled the plugs, Rear was perfect and the front was wet. To me this means that either the front isn't firing or its getting to much fuel to burn. Now keeping in mind that the bike idled fine and under load at 70 mph ran fine based on rider complaint, getting too much fuel at mid range. No more power commander so it wasn't a rider setting. ECM programmed by harley very recently and dyno'd so all that's good. I'm pretty sure its firing or their would be a code so pulled the plugs and turned over the bike and they fired. Ohm'ed the plug wires and they were within specs per the bike bible.

So too much fuel, no code. Fuel pressure is within regs per the bike bible and the dealer. So my research concludes that Harley Delphi Fuel Injectors have both an electronic side and a manual side. The electronic side works like an electromagnet as I understand. Constant 12 volts is my understanding and the opening and closing is managed by the ECM telling the magnet to go to ground. So whats the magnet pulling on; A spring. The top of the injector where it accepts fuel from the fuel rail has a screen insert which is like a second filter. Under that is a spring which sits on top pf a brass tube that slides inside the stainless steel injector body with a port through the center that i figure allows fuel to pass to the pintel. The brass also fits inside the pintel to guide the pintel which is also stainless so probably raised and lowered by the magnet, looks like a small cup with holes at the bottom, right before the fuel is forced out the end of the injector into the intake to mix with the air and be pushed into the cylinder to be fired. So metal parts against metal parts create friction which induces wear. Softer metal such as brass wears faster than stainless steel.

60,000 miles on the bike at near 70 mph or 3000 rpm means to me that the injector is firing 1500 times a minute on that cylinder at that speed. Give or take, I'm no engineer but you get the idea.

Changed out the injectors basically and the problem was solved. The front injector was bad in effect the inside was worn and allowing fuel to leak into the cylinder. I changed both just because if ones bad then the others close i figure. Its been there at least as long as the other.

Why? Well in my non expert opinion when you start the bike and its cold it wants more fuel so the fuel leaking past inside the injector was ok. Not causing noticeable problems yet to the rider. Rider takes off and throttles up and the ECM starts to match the air induction with the necessary fuel which means that extra fuel leaking past the injector is giving the cylinder more fuel to burn than it wants to burn and it ends up in the exhaust.Therefore you have a lack of power and backfiring in the exhaust due to the excess fuel burning off in the exhaust blocking the even flow of thermal and sound waves there so the flow is constricted and confused on the front cylinder which I think leads to the spitting back through the intake. At higher speeds of 70 mph and above under load the bike needs more fuel so it starts to even out some I guess and the issue is not a noticeable to the rider.

And Yes after changing the injectors I took the old ones and a hack saw and a vise and verified my theory. The brass inside was worn with noticeable wear marks and not sliding freely with the spring. Starting to slant in the tube some i think, binding. My understanding is the spring is collapsed when the magnet is activated allowing the pressurized fuel to push past the pintel on the other end and enter the cylinder. OOORRRRR more fuel was getting past between the brass tube and the body of the injector than should have been if at all which would mean that the fuel was bypassing the pintel on the outside and wasn't part of the metered fuel entering the cylinder.

In any event the problem was solved by changing the injectors and rider/ owner is happy after 500-1000 miles with no further issues. Seems to me the Dealer should have caught this fuel issue when they changed the plugs but it is what it is.

Hope this helps someone else as I found nothing about it before when i looked.

 

I was chasing codes all over the place for a while, misfire rear cylinder, replaced the coil and it went away...

Put a Thundermax in it and all hell started breaking loose, after 20 miles it would crap out as in half power.

Ripped the Thundermax out, went back to the PCIII.... replaced the tank hoses as they were split causing fuel starvation and a lot of the problems

A week later the presure regulator sh*t the bed leaving me stranded, bike would run on ether, but was not getting fuel.


Try popping the quick release fitting on and off the tank fitting, this has been a problem in the past.

Open the fuel fill, turn bike power on, listen for splashing in the tank... an indication of the lines going bad...and yes they go bad and it is a known issue.

If you have a pressure guage, check the fuel pressure.

Personally I'd just replace the lines and regulator as a maintenance item because if they are not bad, they will be soon.

I thought I had a bad injector wire, it turned out to be the PCIII was garbage tossing a misfore code. If you need the injector pigtail it can be found at NAPA.