OK...foundsome timeto post a review of some recent tuning changes performed between the Thundermax Auto Tuner and the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner. While they each have their applications, there are some real differences between the 2 products and this is one mans review of the 2 components on the same motor and same dyno. I am simply sharing this info in case it helps someone else along the way and is by no means a scientific report so take it for what it's worth. No flames intended on either product!

I bought a Thundermax module for my bike (2007 FLHX) last year knowing I was going to outfit the bike with a 107" engine kit. When the engine was built, it was fired with the the Thundermax Module in place (canned zippers map) and was broke in with an initial 1000 miles run on the dyno. That allowed us to check the air fuel mix on the bike using the gas sniffer on the dyno and compared those readings to the Zippers software ensuring is was rich enough for break in. Everything looked good and the bike was ran in before I rode it home without issue. It learned the build and tuned in perfectly over the summer where I also made a few minor performance changes with new parts added along the way. In the post season, I decided to upgrade the bike with a new 124" motor and thought I'd reuse the Thundermax to break it in and see what it would do to match the performance requirements of the new motor.

I then broke the new motor in and got a chance to have it dyno'd on May 3rd where it made 122/130 corrected on a local dyno with no tuning work performed. While the numbers were seemingly low for this build, much of it is attributed to a lower compression ratio of 10.7:1 (175ccp), an oversized pipe (Boarzilla) which flows too freely, a tuning module (Thundermax) that was running too lean, and the elevation here with it's 1.15 correction factor and ability to kill power. I then looked at the options to correct the power and determined the first thing would be trying a different tuner to see if there was something left on the table as relative to the air fuel mixture. I then dropped the bike off May 14th and had it tuned locally on the same dyno, but with the Screamin Eagle Super Tuner added. After a full tune with as many as 41 pulls the bike produced a best result of 130/133 while picking up a mere 8HP and 3FT LBS. That equates to 1.05 HP per cubic inch which isn't bad considering this build was put together to be able to run at anywhere on 91 octane pump gas (standard around here) or 89 octane when caught somewhere without anyhing better. I've built a few high compression motors in my days and know the direct result on bearings when high compression and heat cause detonation in a motor, so that was a big consideration when building this one.

While I don't foresee a move to sea level anytime soon, the next thing that will likely benefit this motor will be my going back to a FatCat since this Boarzilla pipe appears to flow a bit too freely. I would expect a sharp pickup in torque near the bottom end and will be happy to see some gains at the top as well. I may also shave the heads a bit to bring the compression up a couple points if deemed necessary after the pipe is changed but will leave that till the end. The bike runs great as it sits and the air fuel is spot on now with it's recent tune. After comparing the two tuners and the costs, would I say the new tuner is worth it? Dunno as that verdict is still out.

In the end I likely could have tuned the TMAT in a bit and added some fuel to get near identical results on the dyno, but would not have noticed the results until dyno'd and may still have had timing issues. Another strong point for the SE Tuner vs the TMAT is the fact that the Delphi Module has a knock sensor feature to adjust timing whereas the Thundermax does not. My final opinion on the two modules when compared to each other is this. While the TMAT will not replace a good tune on a big inch bi

 

Excellent..I just did the 107 on my 07 SG,and went with the AT...I do though Foresee a Big Inch Motor, within the next couple years on the SG.(after I get My Roadglide )


Thanks For the Info and taking care of My Future Headaches ... How Much Do I owe Ya

 

Glideman

Great writeup of your observations. I just ordered a GMR 124" kit (see parts list in the sig) and have been debating if the TMax will be the best choice. If I replaced it, I was thinking of the SE Pro Tuner. Although I like the TMax, I think I may just have to make the change over to the SE model. I do like the knock feature the Sert offers. My compression will be 10:8:1. I'm shooting for high tq numbers at lower rpms. The build will begin in July after I get home. Parts are ordered and paid for so they will be waiting for me.

I also ordered my sidecar and will be getting the bike and car painted Black Cherry Candy. A lot will be happening, I just hope the down time is minimal. I'll keep everyone posted. I'm hoping to see a sidecar setup win BOTM. We'll see.

 

Hey thanks for the info and numbers. I also am on a GMR 124 with map 405, TMAX. No pinging or problems. Dont know or really care what the actual numbers are i just enjoy the heck outta riding it. It gets me from A to B and in between those two points i can smoke the tires, lift the front end, and play with some of the crotch rocket crowd. Very Very happy indeed.

 

Thanks for the info. Also have a 124" GMR build and very happy with it. I also have the TM with map 405 and looks like it working great. I have the D&D fatcat with performance baffles. Glideman what pipe are you changing to?

 

GlideMan,

excellent post -- I will put it to good use as soon as I find the money to upgrade the 103 to 120/124

 

As noted above I am going back to a FatCat but this time it will be with a performance baffle.I hada FatCaton the last build with the standard baffle and it worked great so after trying this Boarzilla out, it's coming off and it's going up for sale along with the Thundermax.

 

Very nice write-up Graerme.... Thanks for taking the time to do that!

One thing you did not mention, that I am VERY interested in is the overall "ridability" of the bike (it's manners) with one device compared to the other. Did you find one to "feel" better than the other, or were they generally the same?

 

I loaded map 405 and it worked well for me when first firing the bike with the 124" build. It popped and sputtered for a couple minuteson the first ride but immediately started to clear up. I rode it for 20 minutes and it just got better and better as I rode. I eventually put 1500 miles on the motor withthe Thundermaxwhere the throttle response was "excellent" and the only apparent issues were starting it while hot where it would labor to fire with both compression reliefs used, and that it would surge a bit while at low throttle position around 2100 to 2400 rpm when feathering the throttle. The hot starts were easily resolved by only using one relief, and I'm sure the surging would have been resolved by adding a few points of fuel through the rpm ranges although I didn't try that before changing it out due to rain and snow. I checked the plugs at each oil change during break-in and they were clean each time with no ill effects. In fact, the only reason I would have ever changed it out was that the dyno was a bit weak where I was looking for more,and that it was running lean between 15.8 and 14 when the AFR was checked on the dyno. In hind site I could have just tweaked it here and there and kept it on the bike but I would guessI'm past that now.

The bike is now running with a tune from theSE Tuner and the effects are few I suppose.While it has cleared up the surging at lower cruise rpm, it has developed acouple flat spots where it stumbles. One is in first gear where it labors for a split second at 20% throttle when rolling off a light, and the other is when cruising at 65 mph where it loads up a bit if you are in 6th gear and travelling at speeds in between the functionality of 5th/6th. When I cruise for a bit at 60-65 mph and then roll on it while it's hot, it sputters until the fuel clears up. Dropping to fifth corrects it right away but again, it stumbles here at cruise throttle. The power at WOT seems better from what I can feel when hammering on it, but I still seem to think the throttle response was a bit better from the Zippers ECM?
I have the map from the SE tune and will make some changes to it when I switch the pipe back for the FatCat in the coming weeks. I'm sure with a little finessingit can be tweaked to perfection and will have a bud address that for me when I get it over to his shop.

I ran the bike on another dyno yesterday just for $hits and giggles, and can tell you that it was the strongest pull the operator had seen all weekend. We looked at the AFR line which dipped to 12.2 or so when he rolledit and rose right to13.2 when it hit 4000 rpm up. It was an excellent line, which as many of us know is what a tuner is chasing when they're dialinga bike in on the dyno. The flatter and smoother the line atthe targetedAFR, the better the power to be had. This one is done for now and I am enjoying riding it as it sits. When I change the pipe, the tune will be tweaked a bit, and I am comfortable for now with the numbers it's making so anything more from the new pipe will be sheer bonus. I'll keep you posted Phil.

Cheers!

 

A very open and honest evaluation. Thanks for a very good and beneficial write up.