Turn signal troubleshoot
 

(Update edit, see last post by me for how I fixed this, R_W_B)
I recently moved my front turn signals from handlebars to forks. Turn signals worked prior to this.

My right front turn signal is now not working. (left does, and both rear do)

I switched bulbs, right still does not work.

I popped right socket out, not enough slack to get it out far enough to see good but all 3 wires appear to still be hooked to socket.

I popped out bottom frame plastic insert and pulled the wiring harness back out. Located the right turn signal 3 wire cable and verified all colors going into the AMP match going out. So I then disconnected the AMP connector.

I put an ohm meter probe on each wire at a time, while putting the other probe on the bulb socket terminal. I get 10 ohms on the Blue and Violet, but nothing on the Black. Manual shows Blue as the running light.
( Just to be clear manual shows Brown and Black as other two, but mine has Violet on center wire of turn signal AMP male connectors instead of brown. )

So obviously I have a bad socket connection or a damaged black wire. I checked the wire it has a couple of creases but no separation of the insulation. Something has gotten stressed somewhere.
I'm gonna cut the wire at the signal bullet and then test the wire with the ohm meter, if the wire tests ok I guess I'm gonna have to buy a new signal assembly.
Anybody got any input on what might be wrong with the socket ?

Just my :icon_twocents::


Before you cut the black wire my advice would be:

1. check for oxidation inside the turn signal socket;
2. connect the left turn signal plug to the outgoing plug at the main harness and check for response;
3. disconnect the turn signal wires from the main harness and use the probe to check for outgoing power at the main harness plug;
4. using the ohm meter check for power conduct on the black wire form turn signal harness from the plug to the socket.

To pull the socket you could use this turn signal socket assembly extraction tool :

You simply squeeze it, hook up the pins into the notches where the bulb fits in................


http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...ctiontool2.jpg

.
.........and pull out gently the socket assembly:


http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...ctiontool3.jpg

hook the ohm-meter back to your black wire, from the socket back to the pin terminal... spring loaded clips would be ideal for this if you have them... then wiggle the black wire at the places you say you have creased at. Also wiggle the socked assembly (if you can )... and the wire where it goes into the pin terminal.

The creases definitely indicate a pressure point and... most often tho, the wire breaks where it transitions into some 'hard and fixed' object, as that is where the motion is most likely to happen on the wire.

(By the way I can get the socket out, it's just that there isn't enough slack in the wire to let me pull it very far out. There is a rubber grommet going into the chrome bullet that doesn't let the wire slide. Guess maybe I need to work on the grommet some.

Anyhow...Thanks for the suggestion shown, as soon as I got in from work I did the above. You've got something there because now my left doesn't flash in the front just like the right was doing.
This seems to mean something has gone wrong in the right side delivery harness where my right turn signal AMP connector is connecting. (Although I still don't understand why the Black wire on the right signal cable isn't showing on an ohm test)
Now my problem is when I try to trace this right side delivery cable down it appears (it's getting dark in my garage) that it just goes up to the tank console ? Where does the front lights get their feed from the rear and battery ?

I guess the turn signal wire is vulcanised to the grommet. To get some slackyou could try to wet the grommet and pull it outside in the turn signal housing.

Not shure how it is for your year/model...could be the wires connect to the main harness under the tanks pannel. Perhaps someone who owns a 2007 model could chime in?!

.
.
no.

from the turn switch

the power goes into the Turn Signal Security Module

feeds out (violet) of the Turn Signal Security Module then

first splits into two w/ one branch going to rear

the other branch splits again into two w/ one going to idjit light

and the other to the actual Turn Signal Indicator

seems from what I read, your ground (black) is forked up
.
.
.

Yes I see exactly what you describe in the manual schematic but I did not see the physical cable from front to back. Does it go under the frame ?

And yes it does sound like a I ground issue but it's a bit confusing yet as to where to track it to. The left side and right rear work fine, the ground issue seems to be on part of the right side only. It appears to me that I have a break in the ground somewhere, since if I had a short I would be blowing fuses right ? (since the entire frame is also ground)
(and why my unhooked right signal bullet loop Black wire fails an ohm test is now separate confusing issue)

Well I found how to get the original right signal bullet black wire to pass the ohms (continuity) test, there is only one small spot on the one side of the socket cylinder that the will conduct the ground connection. So I can rule that totally out of the equation (the wire I originally thought it was)

In the meantime I have pulled the battery case and ECM case and I can now see this huge cable coming down the frame backbone and out the back bottom wrapped in Hockey stick tape. Out of this mess comes what I think is the wires I need to now check. (There is also the voltage regulator cable that feeds down and under the engine along the frame but I don't think that is in the equation at present)

Is the turn signal security module up inside the frame neck or back down at the under seat area ?

It's item 15/34 in this parts diagram; located on electrical pannel behind the cover l/h side of bike...

Got some more links for you :icon_wink::

Harley Davidson, 2007 Dyna Models service manual

New 2007 Harley-Davidson Dyna Parts Catalog OEM


They're worth the money.....
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...m/96fa7cf3.jpg

Thanks, for the info.
I have ohm\ed all the black wires out from front to rear and they all have no breaks or shorts (around 8 to 12 ohms)
It appears the Blue completes the running light circuit in the signal bulb and the White/Brown completes circuit from right signal switch to TSSM then a Brown goes from there to Right Signal bulb filament. The both get their power potential from the Black wire which is feed from Neg battery terminal.
I'm gonna put everything back together and try some volt tests on the right signal brown wire tomorrow. I quit on it today since it was getting to be like testing a plate of spaghetti.

However I need input on the following:
I spotted 3 cables under the seat area that I have questions on. They have connectors (a different type of each) but they are just sitting there unconnected. I looked in the parts manual and it " appears ? " they are the following.
Data Link Connector, Customer Accessory Connector and Exhaust Actuator.
I am assuming that the first one is for service testing ?
And the second one is for .....? (it's just a long hollow connector)
And the third used to go to some sort of unit in my stock exhaust header pipe before the V&H setup were put on ?

Data Link Connector:
(grey square bus with rubber plug in it) is used to run diagnostics using a so called SCANALYZER;

Customer Accessory Connector:
is used to power acc like GPS; more info to be found in these threads:
Deutsch pin size
Wiring issue --please some help

Exhaust Actuator:
connects to SENSOR, OXYGEN in header pipe; it is only on HDI (International = non USA) models. It closes during higher loads whilst optimising power and abiding by noise restriction laws...

(Edited to clear up typing errors)
Ok, I definitely have the first one you describe, is gray, has a plug, has 4 wires going into it. (shown 2nd from right in pic below) so this is the data link.

The second one, not sure yet, mine is a light green color with one red (heavy gauge) wire going in it (may be a sheath with more wires in it) 3rd from right in pic below. Doesn't really sound like a cust accs plug shown in the parts manual with 3 wires ?

The third one I'm also confused, my rear Osenser "is" plugged in, both to the bung in the V&H pipe and under the seat, but it is not the plug I'm wondering about. This plug resembles one shown in parts manual called exhaust actuator. Shown 1st on right in pic below.

Also found a fourth one called a Delphi connector (made in china) far left in pic.

Got any input on these ?

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/membe...ectedplugs.jpg

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...m/e83e5e6b.jpg

Edit (based on info from R_W_B): # 2 is the customer asseccory plug and # 3 HD #72100-04, referred to in parts manual as "P&A Battery"

To be 100% sure please let me know the wire colors on all plugs to cross check this info against the 2007 wiring diagrams...

(it's raining outside today so not in any hurry to get back to the turn signal which at this point I feel is a damaged brown wire from the switch housing down the bars) .... but as to the unknown connectors I am finding,

I found two more, 6 altogether that are not hooked to anything under the seat. (oh and by the way appreciate your interest in helping me)

Ok here is what I am almost certain of so far by checking the parts manual, the wiring diagrams and the bike.

The 1st one on right in pic is the exhaust actuator connector that would go to an assembly that bolts on for international models. (colors shown in pic)

The 2nd one from right is the Customer Accs connector. (O/R, R/Y, O/R, BK)

The 3rd one from right is HD #72100-04, referred to in parts manual as "P&A Battery" and is fed by a single red wire that comes from the terminal marked "battery" on TSSM. This would (if I bought it) hook up to HD #70277-04 Accessory Adaptor Harness which would allow even more accessories pigtailed out from this.

The 4th one is labeled Delphi connector, I am not yet determined what this does, it appears to be a ECM map hookup, I only say that because I saw some aftermarket turners that said something about utilizing a Delphi hookup. It does not show up in my parts manual or wiring diagram.

Then (not shown in pic) is a 5th one I just dug out and it is in fact the Data Link connector (GY, LGN/V, BK)

Then (also not shown in pic) is a 6th one that is a short connector with a tabbed cap on it, and it comes off the wrapped cables coming out the bottom of the frame neck, with not much slack wire just about 3" (BK, GN, V)
This one is the only one so far (other than the Delphi) that I have no idea what it is or does. The only thing that would appear to be it in the wiring diagram is the "Air Intake Temp" but why would this be unconnected ?

Searched for this wire color combination in 2007 wiring diagrams but couldn't find what this plug is used for....Perhaps anyone else could chime in?

Wrap up
 

I wanta thank you for all your input. Below is a pic of the one unknown connector way down about 3" from the harness coming out the bottom of neck. Also I wanted to add the Delphi conn. (not the one below) wire feeds out of the TSM module which would make it being shown in the pic "you" posted earlier on the TSM location. My parts manual does not show that pictorial depiction.
I'm gonna send these photos to the salesman I bought my bike from at HD and see if he can get the mechanics to comment on them.
And tomorrow depending on my work schedule I can have all sorts of fun finding and repairing the defective signal wire. Think it's time I put a guardian bell on my bike.
Later....and happy New Year.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/membe...3-unknown1.jpg

Re opening this thread
 

(Update edit, see last post by me for how I fixed this)
Here is where I am so far on right turn signal troubleshoot.
Reiterate Problem:
Recently relocated front turn signals from Handlebars to Front Forks.
Prior to relocation all turn signals worked. Now all work except right front.
Symptoms:
Right running light works, turn signal does not.
When right turn signal switch is activated, (looking at bulb)
the running light filament burns a bit brighter on blink,
the turn signal filament does not burn at all at anytime.
Switched bulbs same problem on same side. (i.e. same problem with bulbs switched)

Pulled wires out of bottom of frame neck, separated the 2 (3 wire AMP) connectors that go to each turn signal. Did an ohm
test and a continuity lite test on all 3 wires in each (both) left and right (3 wire) circuits "that go from connector to the
bulb bullets". All have about 8 ohms and lite up the tester, no tested evidence of breaks in wires. I further removed the
mesh sheathing and inspected wires and pulled right switch apart, no visible breaks or damage to insulation.
This really disappointed me since this would have been the likely area of damage from my front turn signal relo procedure.
So...
Then switched the right and left AMP connections (right signal then gets feed from left switch and vice versa) the problem
reversed to the left signal, proving that the problem was coming from the right signal feed, which is a harness that I did
not even relocate which adds even more confusion to the issue.

So then I separate both AMP connectors again (the 3 wire ones) and this time I test them "on the feed side" across their own
adjacent terminals, with the below scenarios: (BE = BLUE, BK = BLACK, BN = BROWN, V = VIOLET)
-RIGHT FEED AMP----------LEFT FEED AMP (inserting --- for spaces, don't know how to do spaces)
(CONTINUITY TEST (WITH LITE TESTER)
BE-BK Lites up-------------BE-BK Lites up (same with probes reversed)
BE-BN Lites up-------------BE-V does not (but if I reverse probes it does)
BN-BK (does/does not)-----V-BK does
(I can only guess that diodes or circuit parts are causing the polarity differences?)
--------------------------------------------
(OHM METER TEST)
BE-BK 0.9 ohms-----------BE-BK 0.9 ohms
BE-BN 88.0 ohms----------BE-V infinite ohm(this one lites up with probes reversed)
BN-BK 156/88 ohms-------V-BK 88.0/infinite (probes/reversed)
--------------------------------------------
(VOLT POTENTIAL TEST, IGNITION ON, TURN SIGNAL "NOT" ACTIVATED)
BE-BK 12 volts--------BE-BK 12 volts
BE-BN 12 volts--------BE-V 12 volts
BN-BK 0 volts---------V-BK 0 volts
--------------------------------------------
(VOLT POTENTIAL TEST, IGNITION ON, TURN SIGNAL "WAS" ACTIVATED)
BE-BK 12 volts--------BE-BK 12 volts
BE-BN 12 volts--------BE-V 6.5 volts
BN-BK 0.9 volts--------V-BK 6.5 volts
--------------------------------------------
I'm having a bit of trouble figuring this one out and I'm starting
to get that empty wallet feeling of taking it in to the dealer.
Anybody got any ideas of what else to try?

Well I talked to some guys locally and they told me to take all the AMP connectors apart again and inspect the way they are inserted as compared to the left working set. Not the colors since I have those matched up, but they are saying I might have inserted one of the pins upside down. And also to check for green corrosion on the pins in the connector and if that doesn't solve it to take the problem connector totally off and temporarily hard join the two matching pins together with tape and try the signals then.
In any case they told me to keep trying to eliminate all chances of the connectors or wires being the problem since one said that an HD mechanic told him that it "rarely" is a bad TSM module even though the dealer many times will include it in the fix.
So for the time being I am going to keep rigging it around to try and find the bad connection somewhere. I do remember that I dropped the right side bullet housing (with socket in it) from about a foot high off the floor during the relocation proceedure but the bulb since works on the left side when switched and the socket ohm tests out ok so I don't think dropping the bullet did it.
I also disconnected the battery terminals and test probed an ohm test across the disconnected cables and got a very high ohm reading so I know I don't have a direct serious short in the system.

That seems like the most likely place unless you somehow broke a wire in the process... Those connectors were a bear and the offset of the pin,while relatively small, it would be enough... Also if inserted upside down will not engage the lock and the pin could push back in the connector as well....

It worked before you started, it probably is in the area you were working on... Electrical systems are a bear...

Update
 

Well I popped all my 3 wire AMP connector pins out that go to the right front turn signal (under frame neck). I tried inserting them both ways and they will only go in so far if upside down and won't click, so I did not have them upside down.
So I examined each AMP pin carefully, not a whole lot of difference but did spot some tiny tiny gap in the pin structure itself at the top so I squeezed them togther so they were all tight.
I then stuck them togther without the AMP connectors, just slide them in each other. My turn signals worked perfectly.
So then I put them back in the AMP connectors and tried the turn signals again and they again worked perfectly.
Feeling somewhat elated, I held back my rejoicing till I pushed all the wires back in the frame neck. There is so much wire and connectors for this small space it takes some manuvering and some force. It's kinda like trying to shove a giant octopus into an ice chest.
Anyhow got all the wires shoved back in, tried the turn signals again and they don't work again now, same as before.
So I left it for awhile and starting drinking beer. Tomorrow I guess I will pull it all back out and see if there is some slack I can cut out of the turn signal wires to free up some space and also go buy some more AMP pins and cut and re pin all the wires that are bent going into the connectors.
I live right on a road where everyone rides past going to some great curvy ride roads that go up thru the Green Swamp area. So as I am working away in my Garage I get to listen to everyone riding by, makes it kinda depressing. Course I guess it could be worse I could have given up and took it to the stealer and been out $200 to $300 depending.
Later.......R_W_B

:icon_clapclap:...it's dogged as does it...:icon_wink:

Problem fixed !
 

Well I found out (and fixed) what the problem was. I pulled all the wires back out again and with turn signal AMPs laying on the rocker cover I turned the ignition on and tried the lights and signals. At first they worked (yea big deal) so just barely touched the AMP connector and the lights started acting up. So I laid some pliers on the wires so the wires themselves would be isolated and just slightly moved the AMP connectors on both the right and left signals and the lights would act up. So I was pretty much sure the problem was in the AMPs.

So I popped all the pins back out of both AMPs (getting pretty good at AMP pin removal) and closely examined them. They "looked" ok but..... The Male AMPs (the ones I popped the pins on to pull out thru the handlebars for signal relo) are the socket pins and the Female AMPs are the insertion pins, so I slide one of the removed male socket pins in over the insertion pin in the undisturbed female AMP. I could immediately tell it did not fit tight and had wiggle. So I examined the situation and on the back side of the socket pins is a tab that you can push in (to bring it closer to the insertion pin contact). So with a very small screwdriver I pushed all the socket tabs in on both my right and left male signal AMPs. I tested each one after pushing the tab in by sliding the socket pin over the other AMP insertion pin making sure they were all tight before I put them back into their respective AMP connectors. Tested the lights and they worked whether I wiggled the harness or not.

So I carefully maneuvered the mass of wires back into the frame taking my time and looking for the best fit scenario for the available space in the rear, the front and the upper sections of the neck wiring compartment. Got them all back in and put the bottom plastic cover back in and tried my lights again.

They all worked, I turned my front end from side to side and they still worked. The problem was that evidently when I was learning how to remove the pins from the AMP connectors (back when I did the signal relo) I shoved my bobby pin tool in the wrong hole on most of them before I figured out my ignorance. This obviously expanded the inner tab on the pin sockets.
Problem is over. Education learned, and hopefully anyone else that has similar problems will search and find this thread.
Later......R_W_B

Congrats on this result...well done...you're a winner!!

Thanks for keeping us updated.

Congrats!!! I was talking about the pin in the connector maybe being upside down (in the connector...) But all is well that ends well....

Ride On!!!

Is it a dual or single filament? The ground source usually comes from the frame "mounting" of the signal casing - not from a wire. If you have painted forks or signal mounts it may not be making metal to metel contact. You can check this by grounding out the casing of the signal. I had this issue when I powdercoated my rear strut covers. That = no metal to metal contact with the signal casing/mounting bolt.