This has been discussed, but... Back to stock exhaust
 

Due to inner ear problems, and a noticeable loss in hearing since January. I have pulled the black Thunderheader, and I am putting on my stock exhaust until I find something that will give me a decent flow with little sound.

I know there is a price to pay for performance, but I would rather ride my bike then just look at it because the TH started to make me deaf. The TH was/is a good pipe, but when I wear my FF helmet I get a serious resonance in my inner ear that doesn't go away, and limits my mileage.
If I do not wear the FF, and go with a bandana/ear plugs all is well.

I feel safer when commuting to work by wearing all the gear. SO with gas prices so high, and the issue with me ears....back to stockers for now. 48/50 MPG beats the hell out of my truck @ 15 MPG.

I am still putting in the CVO 255 cams. I should have a serious low end pull running the CVO 255/open air cleaner/stock pipes. Stock pipes pull hard down low.

some stock cvo/ screaming eagle mufflers give a pretty good sound but are still legal and pretty quiet. i took my right muffler off to change the rear wheel last week. i had been riding it that way with an open headpipe. i put the cvo muffler back on today after being followed by some cops.. man i love it so much better quieted down,

Why not use the ear plugs AND your full face and or get a quieter pipe, I have the Samson Powerflow, it looks great, flows a bunch and yet it's not the least bit offensive........to me anyway. I've never heard the TH in person but I will tell you this much. If open drag pipes are a 10 and stock are a 1 then I would rate a V&H pro-pipe about an 8 and the Samson about 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGwshPusok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FnMh...eature=related

I am sorry to hear your story -- hope your hearing returns to normal...

Very good options.. They just cost money, and right now that is to a minimum.

I am saving for the cam extras. i.e. bearing kit from Fuel Moto, S&S Quickies with new tubes.

I have tried earplugs with the FF, but here is the absolute funkyness of the noise. You know that thin piece of sking behind your ear? Just right at the base of the ear being the earlobe. With the FF on, even with ear plugs, a certain resonance penetrates that spot, and goes straight into my brain.
The doc said that this was causing permanent damage to my hearing, and I believe it. I am going deaf. Rather than not ride. I choose to go quite.

I have made this switch before, and it really didn't bother me. Yeah you get looks from the crowds, but you know what. I am here to enjoy motorcycles. I can also speak from experience on this subject. Over five times this year cars have come over on me when I was in a high rev accel with my Thunderheaders on. They are loud, and the cars just kept on coming. If they are out to kill you. No amount of screaming is going to change their mind.

Also I travel around 3 times a month 220 miles one way for a weekend. On the Sunday ride home I am so beat from the inner ear fatigue that I cannot even communicate to family for around two hours. I remember riding stock on the same trip, and when I arrived to my destination. I was ready to go. Zero jet lag. I am married, and I have two kids. I live in a wonderful neighborhood. I work where their is a parking garage.
I think that the effort to cure the hearing loss, respect thy neighbor, and not cause trouble at work will be a good faith effort.

I hope it sticks this time. I really want to hear the street legal screaming eagles. Those might be an option in the future. I bet the get louder with the CVO 255 install. I bet the stock exhaust sounds better with CVO 255 installs. Any opinions on a stock motor 96", 255 cams, open A/C with stock exhaust will feel like? :-)

Good move. Your neighbors will thank you. I'm way OK w/ the stock exhaust on my '09, and average 45mpg.

I question whether you will lose much from the stock pipes ... I know the ThunderHeader has a great reputation as one of the best pipes you can use for the street ...

But, that said ... the reason 2-into-1 pipes are better for street use is the scavenging effects of the cylinders on each other ... the stock head pipes (at least the ones on my '05 Dyna) had a crossover tube on the inboard side that ran beneath the transmission side cover ...

... so, with the stock headpipes you should be getting the scavenging effects ...

Perhaps you will lose a little grunt, but ... I think the stock system is not all that bad (assuming some decent slip on mufflers) ...

Hope the hearing loss is reversible ...

R/
'Chop

I can relate to a large extent. I have tinnitus - constant ringing in both ears due mostly to the wind rushing into them when riding. I now wear earplugs everytime I ride just to keep it from getting worse - nothing's going to fix it.

And your observation about safety is dead on (no pun or omen intended). There's never been a credible study that concluded loud pipes have any affect on safety or being noticed. Nice sound bite but truth is loud pipes don't save lives.

What concerns me about your story is the "resonance" you mention. Maybe I'm misunderstanding but that sounds more like a vibration than a noise thing. Have you tried a 1/2 or 3/4 helmet, or maybe a different model/style FF?

I hope you find a combination that works well for you. Can't imagine what it would be like to make the choice between hearing and riding. BTW, the SE pipes I have on my SB are roughly as loud as the stock pipes on my g/f's 07 Fatboy. They "bark" differently when you get on it, but if you ride normally they're really pretty quiet.

Dude i just changed my bub7 out for a supertrapp supermeg 2:1 and the quiet was actually disconcerting at first. But they are def a quieter system however with lots of low and mid range torque. Even the top end just opens right up. I'm actually quite happy witht the sound now, which will get louder as the wrap burns off. It's a nice respectable low rumble at idle, but when you crack it it actually gets quieter! Did i mention the performance? man it's there, she pulls hard all the way up! directharleyparts.com sent them to me.

While I recommend earplug use at all times, the off the shelf versions aren't exactly the best. Your doctor should be able to point you in the right direction for a custom set that is molded to your ear, this will give you better protection.

Also, the myth of "loud pipes save lives" is just that, a myth. Inattentive drivers with the radio on or a cell phone to their ear will not hear you and that's a fact. I have had loud bikes go by me many many times and didn't hear them till they were right at my door.

I wish you good luck and hope the hearing loss is reversible.

Yes, the bike will get louder with the new cams and pull much harder. Don't know about the stock exhaust sound, but you will love the lope at idle and the extra pull.

I agree with others to use some earplugs instead of changing out the exhaust...they also help with wind noise as well.

You have reached the same fork in the road other young folks have come to. Continue to ride with loud pipes or make some changes to keep what hearing you have left. My belief has always been that loud pipes don't save lives as much as they make for deaf old men. I think you have made the right decision as far as opting for a quieter motorcycle.

Unless they have changed something I don't think it will ever change, I have never heard of a ST system that used packing - it's all about the discs, more discs - more noise, less discs - less noise.

right now i have the stock head pipes with python slips ons. pretty loud at idle but quite going down the road. not bad at all in town driving and cant even hear em over 50

I wish I had my stock pipes or something else.

I have the Screaming Eagle race pipes, and they are unbelievably loud, which I actually love. The only problem is I leave for work at about 4am, and live on a cul-de-sac, and have to drive through my neighborhood.

I hate being the a-hole in the neighborhood tearing around at 4am in the ridiculously loud motorcycle.

There is a definite packing inside that pipe. You are right about the discs, but it has fiberglass packing in there, i just installed it two weeks ago. Gawd i can smell the stuff burning! I would take a pic for you but I ain't gonna take off the discs just for that!

I have the Supertrapp Supermeg 2:1 and it dose have packing. I have the billet open endcap and it is still quiter than the short exhaust I had. It has a very deep sound. The Supertrapp makes very good power down low and at high rpm. Yes new packing dose smell for a few miles.

Ark and Madghost are right....Supertrapp is the way to go for performance and still be relatively quiet compared to most other after market systems. I have one ordered.

For comparison using the same camera:

SE II on stock pipes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SygF...qCxWbk72_mHUM=

Supertrapp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXtIY...vmj0HoMxU8giA=

I'm curious as to what happens when you do a stage one with SE airbox and slipons, plus the dealer remap........THEN.............you go back to completely stock........airbox and pipes..................does the dealer remap make your bike run richer than 14.6-1?

Not sure but might have some related info. Bought a 09 Fatboy recently. Came with stage 1, V&H straight shots, and a fuelpak. I replaced the V&H (too loud for me) with unknown slip ons that are very close to stock. Ran okay but had more decel popping than I'd like. Emailed Fuelpak and they gave me another map to try - mostly a guess since we don't know what the pipes are. I programmed it in today - if the rain clears out I'll test it tomorrow or later in the week.

I'm not planning on putting the airbox back to stock. It uses the stock football but has the small backing plate and round filter of the SE version.

Well just to clear up some of the requests.

I use ear plugs all the time. Even with the FF. The resonance is a high pitch buzz. Like in a polyphonic synthesizer. It is very painful. Also the noise would enter my ear via the skin behind the ear. Not though the ear hole.

I finished the change over this morning. I started last night, but it got chilly, and I took my daughter to the Tasty Freeze. Love the Tasty Freeze!

Everything went well. I put all new gaskets (3), and two new muffler clamps. I couldn't find the crossover/interconnect clamp in stock. So I did some work on it, and shimmed it with a coke can. Worked fine for now.

I went for a pretty good ride. To be honest I was really kinda shell shocked. I found myself cringing as if the TH was still on the bike, but it wasn't. After a while the bike felt good. I could hear the motor and exhaust note.
I did not really feel any loss in power. The bike was happy to go, and actually had a little better response on throttle blips.

Here is what I did after the muffler was installed. I just used the SEPST to load a base 176AE106 map. Reset calculations, and went riding. I will do some runs to clean up the VE tables, but I am not hurting anything leaving it the way it is. It is a commuter, and not a racer. :) Any loss in power to me is neglagible, and a waste of time to find in the tune. Now it is just time to ride it until I get the CVO 255 put in.
I will probably leave the stock exhaust on for that as well.

I have a set of '09 FXDB mufflers with Cycle Shack baffles. They sound great and mellow until the packing blows out.

I think I am going to sell the Thunderheader, Cycle Shack exhaust, stock black spoke front and rear wheel with rubber on them, an Edlebrock Carb I have lying around to get some money for the cam change, and also to relocate the ignition to the dash.

After the install of the cams, I would love to get some hard bags. Uh oh. I am getting old.


The hearing loss is not reversible. I have had this for many years, and it is just now catching up to me. I have had several operations on my ears. Just one of those things, but I am glad I had an option to resolve my motorcycle noise problem.


Just to make myself feel better today. I rode up to the Boozefighters meet at the local biker bar with my sewing machine. No one said anything, and commented on my mag wheels, and other just like what I had done to the bike over all. Not that their acceptance in needed. It is just nice to know that there are some other good folks out there that do not care what you ride or sound like. Just as long as you get out and are safe.

i have the install saved on my other computer for the conversion of the ignition. if you need it pm me and i can email it to you

after riding around for a bit one day, i felt like my ears were ringing, like i was going crazy...turns out that I had an inner ear infection, so i left that alone. I came across this thread, and it made me realize that I am still probably loosing my hearing at 26... i keep lieing to myself, saying its not that loud...but it really is if you think about it. lol, I have ear plugs from one of my deployments, triple flange orange ones, they work great, they are 3 or 4 bucks at the BX/PX, I think from now on, i may start riding with them all the time. I still have my stock pipes, but I love the sound of my V&H...IF i went back to stock, i would have to get them powder coated black to keep up with my color scheme. Thanks for the wake up call bro.

I learned something else today riding with my stock pipes. The Harley motor has a really cool sound that you generally do not here.

Another thing I learned today from riding with stock pipes with the open air cleaner is that my bike has always like to go 45 in 3rd gear, 60 in 4th gear, and so on. But generally 45 in 3rd gear was always a constant ROAR or a BWAHHHH.
Well today I was able to cruise in the power band, and no one around me knew that I was ready to twist and go. I passed people walking their kids and pushing strollers doing 45 in 3rd, and they didn't even break their conversation. Most of the time they would slow up and prepare for the blast I was about to give them if I didn't slow down first. Not this time, and that made me feel good.

I liked having a prominent HARLEY DAVIDSON label on my tank, and not have people offended. I am not going to fully commit to soon, but I like what I have seen so far.

A neighbor said today that the bike is sounding real good. He wasn't being a smart ass. He builds hot rods for a living. He was genuine.
My wife wanted to go around the block, and I could understand her when she was talking to me.

I also read today that the pipes are weighted specific to the model i.e. Dyna FXDB has different pipes than the FXD or FXDF or FXWG.
This is because they help to limit vibration felt. The first thing my wife said to me when she took a ride was that the bike felt a lot smoother. Can't argue with that. It does.

Maybe Harley does have something with these stock pipes and the Twin Cam design. Yes, you can make better numbers with the aftermarkets, but it's possible the ride suffers.
And with that there is always the option that a tuner can help the aftermarket pipes, and make them smoother, but for what comes off the showroom, you get a pretty good ride.

Here is a pic with the stock exhaust, loner risers, fat bob seat, 6 spoke slotted wheels, chrome detachable sissy bar.
I had to remove my batter bag because of the stock exhaust. So I decided to put the grey band back on. Bleh! Oh well. Function over Form during riding season.

But damn! I just received my Biker Billy Tool..


https://mail-attachment.googleuserco...CVgHw&sadssc=1

OP, I know how you feel, I'm 25 and I think I'm going to have to make the choice from my v&h short shots on my fxdf. Powder coated black to go with the black denim of course. Lost enough hearing overseas to play those silly games here.

You could get the quiet baffles for the V&H. I put mine in and it really takes the harshness out of the sound.

I have big shots and with quiet baffles and I think the wind noise is way worse for my ears than the bike. I always wear the little foam ear plugs - the ride is more enjoyable when you're not worrying about going deaf.

Wind noise and wind turbulence in your ears can cause hearing loss faster than your pipes. Ear plugs are a must. Take it from someone who has already lost significant hearing and now has a permanent ringing in their ears (tinnitus). The ringing drives me crazy. I always wear earplugs now, but the damage is already done.

Here is a clip from the below article. Everyone riding should read this!

"Based on several research studies, the major contributor to hearing loss in the motorcycle industry remains the "silent killer" known as "wind noise." Generically termed as the amount of noise turbulence produced around the head while the rider is in motion. Its inherited consequences result in irreversible hearing loss damage over a period of time when adequate hearing protection is not worn."

*There is no significant difference in wind noise level as a function of speed, no matter what the helmet brand or model (all being full coverage).
*Neither the riding position nor the brand or style of motorcycle make significant difference in noise level.
*Padding inside the helmet, open or closed vents, or added weather stripping on the helmet to alter flow patterns, does not significantly alter the noise level in a helmet.
*Stopped at a stop light at a busy intersection with your helmet visor closed produces a sound level of 80-90dB SPL. (Lawn mower, loud restaurant levels)
*When not wearing a helmet, the wind noise at highway speed is nearly 10 times greater than when wearing a full coverage helmet.
*Below 30mph, machine, exhaust and environmental noises are heard. Once speeds exceed approximately 30mph, wind noise dominates completely.
*Some helmets resonate at approximately 500Hz, and actually enhance wind noise.
*Legal speeds of 65mph can produce wind noise levels at 103dB SPL, (chainsaw, pneumatic drill). This noise is loud enough to cause TTS in your hearing, tinnitus and permanent ear damage.

Full Article Here

Father time has a unique way of educating. If we are old enough to have long teeth, surely we have learned a few things along the way. A few things which come to mind in this instance are quiet mufflers, a good helmet which seals around the ears, a brightly colored day-glo vest and last, but no least, a damn good windshield which keeps the bugs, rocks and wind off your head. I can "hear" the laughing already.

Well despite what the articles say. If you wear a R-1000 Shoei FF helmet, and have Thunderheaders. You DO have a ringing that comes from the pipes, and it wasn't the wind that was causing my loss of hearing. I wear earplugs in my FF helmet.

It was the buzz that I got from right behind the ear. There is a little piece of skin that covers your inner ear. Reach back there and you will feel it. This is where the sound was coming into my inner ear. It is horrible. Caused vertigo while riding, and also after riding. I'd have to sit for a while just to talk to people.

Despite what others say, if you don't believe me, try out that combination, and get back with the board.

Earplugs didn't help. I actually think it was the contour of the helmet, but never the less it was there, and I didn't like it. Now I don't have to worry about it, and the bike is just as quick, and actually more pleasant to ride for me, at the very moment. I can come home late at night, and the neighbors don't know that I am. I don't have to worry about buzzing a baby carriage while riding down our side streets.

I just don't want all the attention associated with loud exhaust. A mild rumble would be good, but none of the exhaust makers on the market seem to understand this.

I'll trade you my stock Street Bob pipes for that Thunderheader...

Good thread. I've had Short Shots w/quiet baffles on my 1st Streetbob. They didn't seem all that loud though I've heard lots of people say they are. On my Heritage I put on Big Shot Staggereds. Put in quiet baffles, the Smartzpartz baffle and took the damn thing off. Couldn't ride more than an hour. I ended up with a Supermeg and loved it.
My new/used Streetbob came with Big Radius 2in2s and can't stand 'em. I installed an '08 Fatbob catless exhaust with SE slipons and got an A/C PCIII setup from Fuel moto. Having other work done so will finally get the bike back early this week can't wait.

ermeican19, why would I do that? I have a set, and I have some 09 mufflers with Cycle Shack baffles that say they are epa legal, but they are not.

I think I will just stick with my stockers, and keep the TH put up until I decide to build a racing bike. I might see it soon. Just depends.

I have a few HD products lying around for the Dyna that might bring enough money for me to do some up grades.

I know i was just kidding, I know you mentioned you already replaced it with other parts. I'm in the market for a Thunderheader, just offering to take it off your hands :icon_badrazz:

Well. I haven't decided.

I'd like to have a rip-roaring weekend whip one day. I have been piecing together parts.
So far I have:

19" black spoke front wheel
17" black spoke rear wheel
rear sprocket
drag bars
49mm trees
black Thunderheader
CV carb
air cleaner


I don't have any extra expense right now, but I would like to buy a 96" take off from someone that built a 120r. I'd convert it to carb, and build a 6 speed with a 30T trans pulley. It'd have TW-555 or SE 204 cams. Most likely SE 204 cams. It would have the bare necessities for street in my state. That would be tail lights and a head light. Zero blinkers. I'd like to have the bike down to less than 15 wires to run it, and I'd run it without a front brake for a while if need be.
I am putting back while making my daily commuter more comfortable while it is playing that role. Hence the move back to stock exhaust, and of course the medical reasons.

I'd like to have a softtail frame for the bike I am speaking about. I'd like it to be a low bobber with drag bars @ 100/100 with a 96" motor. It might be possible, but it wouldn't be my daily rider. I'd like to have it for rallies, and weekend rides every now and then. I think it will come together as the kids get older.

Custom ear plugs. Or get soft ones from walmart. They are purple and come in a container. I shoot guns often and ride as with a very loud exhaust. Once I use those no noise

I shoot competition rifle. I also wear ear plugs.

I think that everyone is missing the catch 22. Doesn't matter if you have ear plugs when the helmet and noise trapped is getting in via the thin layer of skin behind your ear. Which happens to be directly located at your ear drum.

It is funny how a lot have a solution/excuse to "my" problem. Which not only stems from the noise of the exhaust, but from non-reverseable damage due to sinus issues, and many, many surgeries to my ears.

I have had and still have custom ear plugs so that I can swim. Without them I cannot water ski, swim, and at times take showers. I have a hole in my right ear drum.
I have DJ'd in the largest clubs and warehouses in the USA since I was a young man, and we didn't play pop music. We played very complex sounds from a range of 17 to 100k. Yes, some were not audible, but they were there, and very amplified.

So ear plugs be it from Wal-Mart or custom, Pink to black, are not going to resolve this problem for me. The stock exhaust is the best solution unless I want to quit riding.

It sux to get to work after a 35 minute race on the HWY, and feel so fatigued from the noise that you can't get your bearing to be the best you can be at your job. It sux to race home to meet your child's bus because she depends on you, and you have just rode balls out, and not be able to really hear her say to you, "Hi, Daddy. How was your day today?"

If you don't have these issues, and ear plugs work for you great. I love the way open exhaust sounds. I wish it didn't hinder my riding time, and didn't give me fatigue that is not warranted while riding.
At this time the perks out weigh the negatives for running stock exhaust.

Pros:

Less fatigue on long/short trips
More focus due to less fatigue
Able to hear if something is not correct with your engine
Hearing what a great sounding engine the Harley has instead of the exhaust
Able to ride at all hours of the night without disturbing others
Zero loss of power due to the crossover pipe (on a stage 1 motor of course, not a built motor)
Neighbors talking to you without screaming while your bike is running
Less cost to you (zero Harley Tax)
A BIG PRO HAPPENED TODAY! MY DAUGHTER RODE ON THE BACK WITH ME AROUND THE BLOCK TWICE. SHE WOULDN'T EVEN COME IN THE GARAGE WITH THE BIKE ON WHEN I HAD THE THUNDERHEADER ON. IT WAS TO LOUD!
many more, but you get the picture.

Cons:

Maybe your not consider a "Real Biker" (Sarcasm)
Your bike doesn't sound like it has more power than it really does.
I don't know many more because it really doesn't matter. :)


I like motorcycles. I like loud, quite, big, small, plastic, iron, v-twin, parallel, cafe, cruiser, dirt, 2 stroke, EFI, carbed, on and on and on.

Just ride!