103 & CAM Questions
#21
10-19-2013, 12:20 PM
Well, not regularly. Just when pouring it on i.e. when you make use of performance mods.
If you aren't revving over 4K RPM then you aren't hitting the bike's peak power-band. Though that is so wide on a Harley that it doesn't matter to some people.
If you aren't revving over 4K RPM then you aren't hitting the bike's peak power-band. Though that is so wide on a Harley that it doesn't matter to some people.
#22
10-19-2013, 12:28 PM
Road Master
Yeah but peak power is for the racetrack, where most of us never go. Performance mods are very useable below peak when they increase power in street range.
#23
10-19-2013, 01:11 PM
#24
10-19-2013, 01:34 PM
Road Master
Fair enough.
Not trying to hijack the thread but can someone tell me more about the heat and starting issues with the 255 that have been mentioned? I'm assuming it is due to the fact that the engine is producing more power at idle than the other cams. How bad is the heat issue?
#25
10-19-2013, 02:51 PM
Guess its my motorX/Single track background, Im used to living in and using the higher RPM range. I agree that the more power you have the less you have to wring it out. Had to run a modified crf450 & even then was looking to the KTM 510s... is there ever enough? - never have like crotch rockets tho, not what Im after.
#26
10-19-2013, 02:58 PM
The big advantage with going with SE cams when you have chosen the SEPST is that the tuning is plug and play. Just throw on HD's dyno-developed canned map and you are 95% of the way there. Add some Smart tune time and it really is good to go without any dyno time. Pick another brand of cams and you would be guessing at the timing and fuelling changes needed and you would need both adjusted on a dyno by someone who's good at his job and not just tweaking the fuel at WOT.
I'd go with the SE Perfect Fit pushrods to maintain the pre-load because the 204 cams have a slightly smaller base circle and so you want the slightly longer Perfect Fit pushrods. They are stiffer too. Or you could use adjustables and make the installation easier but, personally, I'm not a fan because its something else to go wrong and they are heavier - some would disagree on that one.
I'd go with the SE Perfect Fit pushrods to maintain the pre-load because the 204 cams have a slightly smaller base circle and so you want the slightly longer Perfect Fit pushrods. They are stiffer too. Or you could use adjustables and make the installation easier but, personally, I'm not a fan because its something else to go wrong and they are heavier - some would disagree on that one.
Mike Stegmann
Performance Consultant
Team Latus Motors Harley-Davidson
He seemed to be of the same mind on the need to dyno, for exactly the same reasons you mention.
I'd rather save the money on the Dyno and put it to parts if A) it reasonable I can do this with the SEST, & B) Would be supprised if we had someone who knows how to properly dyno in our area anyways.
What push rods would you recommend in this case (the 204) build w/stock head gasket of .045?
#27
10-19-2013, 06:46 PM
If you want to save time and not have the top off too then use adjustables.
A common complaint from some people is the racket from the top end after swapping out cams. Do it by the (SE) book and this is not an issue.
I'm starting to sound like an SE groupy! But actually I'll use whatever I find is good and in this case it happens to be SE.
#28
10-19-2013, 06:53 PM
Do you guys really routinely shift above 4K?? I have been above 4K maybe a handful of times and it was just to see how it felt. I don't get it...IMO these engines feel and sound like **** above 4K and I have never NEEDED to wind it out that far in street riding, and I'm a pretty aggressive rider. I get on it hard and shift around 3.5K most of the time. So I guess it's fair to say the 255 is going to be the best option for me.
#29
10-19-2013, 07:27 PM
Yes, routinely. Every time I ride it sees around 6800. Just this afternoon on my 30 mile ride home on back roads with friends it saw 6k+ probably over 20 times. You think it sounds and feels like **** because that's what 255s do on the top. If you rode a bike that actually pulled over 6k you might change your mind. Imo nothing sounds as good as a high spinning V motor. Twin, 4 or 8. Shifting at 3500 is aggressive?? That's where I cruise. 4k on my bike is about where you better hold the **** on, front end is in the air, trying to stay on the seat and find the shifter. Shift it about 6700 and the front end doesn't see the ground til 4th gear and you're doing 80+ in the blink of an eye. I guess I love the rush of something fast, not lugging the **** out of it and rolling on the throttle at 2500. Rather take a good nap.
Looked into the 30/70 setup, man thats a pretty serious change, you have any direct experience with it? Short of alot more HP/TQ.... meaning I dont think I can get there with a 103, I think Im going to have to do that.
Kicking around doing that 1st or the cam work?
#30
10-20-2013, 02:15 AM
Road Master
Yes, routinely. Every time I ride it sees around 6800. Just this afternoon on my 30 mile ride home on back roads with friends it saw 6k+ probably over 20 times. You think it sounds and feels like **** because that's what 255s do on the top. If you rode a bike that actually pulled over 6k you might change your mind. Imo nothing sounds as good as a high spinning V motor. Twin, 4 or 8. Shifting at 3500 is aggressive?? That's where I cruise. 4k on my bike is about where you better hold the **** on, front end is in the air, trying to stay on the seat and find the shifter. Shift it about 6700 and the front end doesn't see the ground til 4th gear and you're doing 80+ in the blink of an eye. I guess I love the rush of something fast, not lugging the **** out of it and rolling on the throttle at 2500. Rather take a good nap.