Sifter, I know were you are coming from. It took me a while to find the sound I was lookingfor. I always liked the sound of thunderheaders but never wanted to deal with the blueing and the black sut that I noticed on other peoples th pipes. I dont knough if my bike is tuned right or what but I have 5000 miles on mine and no problems. I have samson duals with th slipons and they have the sound I was looking for. And it run awsome. I'm with you 2-1 on a bagger looks like hell. I just have not heared any muffs that sound as good as thunderheaders.