Why do I feel bad when trying to buy from a dealer?
#21
02-26-2015, 12:11 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Its all a dance, and the dealer is calling the tune. Its carefully orchestrated. Nothing happens that's not part of a carefully crafted, consultant-tested sales process designed to extract maximum money out of the buyer. They even work hard to make you think you got a "good deal". That's the reach-around.
In the grand arc of life, it doesn't matter much anyway. How many motorcycles are you going to buy in a lifetime? On the day you die, it won't matter if you overpaid or not. What's a few grand here and there compared to a lifetime? No one's life is going to get better because they beat the price down by 8% on a motorcycle. The life-changing events are not events at all. They are the decisions and habits we make every day. That's where the real action is.
I know guys who find good sport in the process, and more power to them. Find your fun where you can. There was a time when that guy was me. Not anymore. I don't have as much patience as I used to, and I don't care nearly as much about what I used to care about.
What's a "fair price"? What's a "good deal"? How much is it worth to you? That's the only question.
In the grand arc of life, it doesn't matter much anyway. How many motorcycles are you going to buy in a lifetime? On the day you die, it won't matter if you overpaid or not. What's a few grand here and there compared to a lifetime? No one's life is going to get better because they beat the price down by 8% on a motorcycle. The life-changing events are not events at all. They are the decisions and habits we make every day. That's where the real action is.
I know guys who find good sport in the process, and more power to them. Find your fun where you can. There was a time when that guy was me. Not anymore. I don't have as much patience as I used to, and I don't care nearly as much about what I used to care about.
What's a "fair price"? What's a "good deal"? How much is it worth to you? That's the only question.
#22
02-26-2015, 12:24 PM
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4
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The bike is an '12 FXDWG. The salesman rode another bike and every stop light checked his phone. And then while trying to work a deal.
Biggest thing that got me was the 'required' additional charges. $300 document fee, On a used bike?
Salesman said they were sending the bike to auction. I figured they might want to deal on it...guess not.
Maybe they are financing their new building.
Biggest thing that got me was the 'required' additional charges. $300 document fee, On a used bike?
Salesman said they were sending the bike to auction. I figured they might want to deal on it...guess not.
Maybe they are financing their new building.
#23
02-26-2015, 12:40 PM
Grand HDF Member
Tried to buy a bike at a dealer in Arizona this weekend. Salesman was a nice guy, spent to much time texting during my time with him and during road test. Once back at the dealer the, well, sorry to for the honesty here...the gang rape started.
Salesman took my info, went to the sales manager. Then the assault, the appointed hit man and the sales manager hit from all sides.
The bike (a trade they had just taken in) had a large yellow tag with a marked down price, which when the offer came to me the original price was their starting price, then the discounted price and then the 'add back in crap', Document fee $300, Prep fee $495, Security fee $599, and sales tax $280 (which they f'd up, only charged city and no state tax, actual $950).
Maybe I'm wrong here but aren't I the customer and not the victim?
Why the high pressure BS? This is supposed to be pleasant experience and I feel raped every time I try to buy.
$300 document fee on a cash sale? The prep fee maybe, the previous owner had done a half assed intake modification and left the wires undone and exposed. Security fee was for a 'branding' of the frame and location service.
Sales tax can't be helped but to forget the state tax, oops!
Very high pressure, all the fees need to be disclosed up front when you walk in the door, not the 'oh by the way' method.
Is there a way to avoid this and make buying a bike pleasant?
Salesman took my info, went to the sales manager. Then the assault, the appointed hit man and the sales manager hit from all sides.
The bike (a trade they had just taken in) had a large yellow tag with a marked down price, which when the offer came to me the original price was their starting price, then the discounted price and then the 'add back in crap', Document fee $300, Prep fee $495, Security fee $599, and sales tax $280 (which they f'd up, only charged city and no state tax, actual $950).
Maybe I'm wrong here but aren't I the customer and not the victim?
Why the high pressure BS? This is supposed to be pleasant experience and I feel raped every time I try to buy.
$300 document fee on a cash sale? The prep fee maybe, the previous owner had done a half assed intake modification and left the wires undone and exposed. Security fee was for a 'branding' of the frame and location service.
Sales tax can't be helped but to forget the state tax, oops!
Very high pressure, all the fees need to be disclosed up front when you walk in the door, not the 'oh by the way' method.
Is there a way to avoid this and make buying a bike pleasant?
"My financing is approved so that is not an issue and I am ready to sign papers if we can get to this deal:
Bike: $19,000
Tax: $1,187.5
License: $150 (??) Should be fairly close
Down Payment: $1,900
Financing: $18,437 @ 3.99% for 60 months
Payment: $340.12"
2 hours I had a call on the phone saying to come and get it. Paperwork was as described. All that other stuff is BS charges to inflate dealer profit. Did they make money on me, yes. Did I present an easy case for them to sell me the bike without the BS, absolutely. It was a 10 minute deal once I got to the dealer.
Knowledge is King.
#25
02-26-2015, 12:47 PM
Also if the bike isn't as advertised you are more likely to get a resolution from a dealer than a private person.
Lastly, a lot of people just don't know what to look for in a bike so they trust or are more comfortable with the dealer to be honest more so than a private person.
#26
02-26-2015, 01:22 PM
The bike is an '12 FXDWG. The salesman rode another bike and every stop light checked his phone. And then while trying to work a deal.
Biggest thing that got me was the 'required' additional charges. $300 document fee, On a used bike?
Salesman said they were sending the bike to auction. I figured they might want to deal on it...guess not.
Maybe they are financing their new building.
Biggest thing that got me was the 'required' additional charges. $300 document fee, On a used bike?
Salesman said they were sending the bike to auction. I figured they might want to deal on it...guess not.
Maybe they are financing their new building.
I would have not only called him out for his exceptionally rude social behavior, I would have also explained to his boss why he's soured my perception of that particular dealership and why I'm headed to the competitor the next day to work with them.
That salesman texting and being on his phone so much should have been your leverage for a much better deal.
It's one thing to glance at your phone once or twice during a discussion with a buyer, but to text and constantly be on the phone is downright rude and unacceptable. Can't imagine his boss condones such behavior.
#27
02-26-2015, 01:25 PM
Its all a dance, and the dealer is calling the tune. Its carefully orchestrated. Nothing happens that's not part of a carefully crafted, consultant-tested sales process designed to extract maximum money out of the buyer. They even work hard to make you think you got a "good deal". That's the reach-around.
In the grand arc of life, it doesn't matter much anyway. How many motorcycles are you going to buy in a lifetime? On the day you die, it won't matter if you overpaid or not. What's a few grand here and there compared to a lifetime? No one's life is going to get better because they beat the price down by 8% on a motorcycle. The life-changing events are not events at all. They are the decisions and habits we make every day. That's where the real action is.
I know guys who find good sport in the process, and more power to them. Find your fun where you can. There was a time when that guy was me. Not anymore. I don't have as much patience as I used to, and I don't care nearly as much about what I used to care about.
What's a "fair price"? What's a "good deal"? How much is it worth to you? That's the only question.
In the grand arc of life, it doesn't matter much anyway. How many motorcycles are you going to buy in a lifetime? On the day you die, it won't matter if you overpaid or not. What's a few grand here and there compared to a lifetime? No one's life is going to get better because they beat the price down by 8% on a motorcycle. The life-changing events are not events at all. They are the decisions and habits we make every day. That's where the real action is.
I know guys who find good sport in the process, and more power to them. Find your fun where you can. There was a time when that guy was me. Not anymore. I don't have as much patience as I used to, and I don't care nearly as much about what I used to care about.
What's a "fair price"? What's a "good deal"? How much is it worth to you? That's the only question.
#28
02-26-2015, 01:29 PM
I would want to know why the bike was going to the auction? And in these types of purchases I remember what my father once told me. "The one with the money gets the experience. The one with the experience gets the money".
#29
02-26-2015, 01:54 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Its the day in and day out decisions that make the most difference.
Do you go out for lunch every day, or brown-bag it? Do you pay cash, or carry interest? Do you grocery shop from a list, or just buy whatever seems appealing as you walk through the store?
Over a lifetime, things like that are going to make way more difference financially that your negotiating skills on infrequent purchases like motorcycles or cars.
#30
02-26-2015, 01:56 PM
Road Master
The bike is an '12 FXDWG. The salesman rode another bike and every stop light checked his phone. And then while trying to work a deal.
Biggest thing that got me was the 'required' additional charges. $300 document fee, On a used bike?
Salesman said they were sending the bike to auction. I figured they might want to deal on it...guess not.
Maybe they are financing their new building.
Biggest thing that got me was the 'required' additional charges. $300 document fee, On a used bike?
Salesman said they were sending the bike to auction. I figured they might want to deal on it...guess not.
Maybe they are financing their new building.
I was shopping for a mini van for my folks last summer.
Both the Dodge and Kia dealerships were advertising good prices on new 2014's.
When it actually got down to it, they wanted $1600. PDI and an additional $1500 for Doc fee's
The Dodge Guy's were the worst, the $21000 mini Van was $35000 by the time the BS settled!!
The Dodge sales manager gave me an all in price over the phone and it all changed when I walked in the door.
There will be Skiing down the slopes of Hell the next time they see me.