The truth and nothing but the truth... so hard to find!
#31
02-11-2016, 03:19 PM
Road Warrior
This is not me trying to be an *******, just an observation from many years on this earth. I am not a worrier myself but...If you are of the type to be constantly looking for troubles/problems/issues (a worrier), I guarantee you'll find troubles/problems/issues.
Some of them will be legit. We all come up against issues somewhere in life here and there. Some of them will not "really" be legit (you'll see an issue and others will say "whats the problem here?" you're just seeing it because you're looking for it (chicken little complex))
I'm of the type to enjoy life and deal with things as they come up, as I understand and have foreknowledge that something will come up at some point, beyond my control, worrying isn't going to change it, so I just deal with it when it comes and enjoy life in the meantime.
I much prefer that kind of life, but to each his own. Some people don't think life is happening unless they constantly look at every little detail and/or have some kind of drama going on. My mother in-law is that person big time, but I won't go further with that story here.
Not knocking you OP, just maybe showing you a different light that you might see/not see in yourself.
Some of them will be legit. We all come up against issues somewhere in life here and there. Some of them will not "really" be legit (you'll see an issue and others will say "whats the problem here?" you're just seeing it because you're looking for it (chicken little complex))
I'm of the type to enjoy life and deal with things as they come up, as I understand and have foreknowledge that something will come up at some point, beyond my control, worrying isn't going to change it, so I just deal with it when it comes and enjoy life in the meantime.
I much prefer that kind of life, but to each his own. Some people don't think life is happening unless they constantly look at every little detail and/or have some kind of drama going on. My mother in-law is that person big time, but I won't go further with that story here.
Not knocking you OP, just maybe showing you a different light that you might see/not see in yourself.
#33
02-11-2016, 04:21 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Yes the twinkies have their own fare share of problems like every single HD engine that came before them. You want bullet proof? Late 90's evo, or evo sporty, and even those have their own issues. Ride the bike, take care of it, fix problems when they arise and do good preventative maintenance to keep problems from arising and you'll be fine. EVERY motorcycle brand has it's own problems. You think my Vulcan 1700 doesn't have some known issues that Kawasaki acknowledges?
#34
02-11-2016, 06:58 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Having said that, I've put over 24,000 miles on my '13 SG without an issue. Well, I take that back, I had the radio head unit replaced at three weeks because the display jacked up. Other than that, been nothing but smooth rolling...
#35
02-11-2016, 07:31 PM
You Have Hydraulic Cam Tensioners
Spring Loaded Cam Chain Tensioners were a short cut Harley took in the 1999 to 2006 model years of Twin Cams to cut EPA mandated noise control issues of the cam chain on those models
Unfortunately the plastic "shoes" employed on those years tend to self destruct at 20,000 miles or so. They kept the motor quiet but they also wore out because the tension was pretty tight!!!
A better solution to those problems employed STARTING 2006 was hydraulic cam chain tensioners instead of the harsher earlier spring type design. The Hydraulic type are GENTLER.
Yours is a 2009 and is therefore hydraulic. You should not even have to look at the issue until 50,000 miles. About the same time most modern cars with "Timing Belt Issues" need to be looked at.
Stop worrying. IF you own an early pre 2007 Twin Cam you really should enjoy taking off the mechanical belt tensioner at 20,000 miles and replacing the whole shebang with a better cam (Like a Harley 204) AND Hydraulic tensioners while you are at it.
The resulting boost in power and drivability will pay you back in spades. So if you have an early pre 2006 model Twin Cam HAVE FUN. The new cam will be a blast!
IF you have a later motor just accept the fact that cam tensioner belts wear out every 50,000 miles.
BIG DEAL.
Unfortunately the plastic "shoes" employed on those years tend to self destruct at 20,000 miles or so. They kept the motor quiet but they also wore out because the tension was pretty tight!!!
A better solution to those problems employed STARTING 2006 was hydraulic cam chain tensioners instead of the harsher earlier spring type design. The Hydraulic type are GENTLER.
Yours is a 2009 and is therefore hydraulic. You should not even have to look at the issue until 50,000 miles. About the same time most modern cars with "Timing Belt Issues" need to be looked at.
Stop worrying. IF you own an early pre 2007 Twin Cam you really should enjoy taking off the mechanical belt tensioner at 20,000 miles and replacing the whole shebang with a better cam (Like a Harley 204) AND Hydraulic tensioners while you are at it.
The resulting boost in power and drivability will pay you back in spades. So if you have an early pre 2006 model Twin Cam HAVE FUN. The new cam will be a blast!
IF you have a later motor just accept the fact that cam tensioner belts wear out every 50,000 miles.
BIG DEAL.
#36
02-12-2016, 09:15 PM
Stellar HDF Member
#37
02-13-2016, 05:03 AM
#38
02-13-2016, 06:01 AM
You're KIND OF right but I don't want someone to come along and get confused if they own a pre 07 TC 0r pre 06 Dyna.
Stock TC motors use a chain to drive the rear cam from the crank and another chain from the rear cam (on the back side of the cam plate) to the front cam. NOT belts.
You're absolutely right about the shoe material being inferior. Cyco makes better shoes that last longer and don't lose chunks that can get into the oil pump.
Aside from the shoe material, the biggest undoing was the chains that turn the cams. They are silent link chains as opposed to roller chains. Those silent chains are the real culprit on shoe wear, not the spring loaded tensioners. That's why the "conversion" Harley sells isn't such a good deal. It uses a roller chain on the outer tensioner but retains the silent link chain on the back of the cam plate so you haven't really solved the problem.
Gear driven cams are an option if crank run out is within .003. If not I would replace the shoes with Cycos and check every 15 to 20K or I'd put together a hydraulic set up that used a roller chain front and back. The cams have to be changed because the inner journal is smaller on TC88s and they have teeth that won't accommodate roller chains. (stock cams)
But one thing is for certain; it isn't as bad as folks let on. And mostly, the folks who let on wouldn't know what they were looking at if you showed them.
Stock TC motors use a chain to drive the rear cam from the crank and another chain from the rear cam (on the back side of the cam plate) to the front cam. NOT belts.
You're absolutely right about the shoe material being inferior. Cyco makes better shoes that last longer and don't lose chunks that can get into the oil pump.
Aside from the shoe material, the biggest undoing was the chains that turn the cams. They are silent link chains as opposed to roller chains. Those silent chains are the real culprit on shoe wear, not the spring loaded tensioners. That's why the "conversion" Harley sells isn't such a good deal. It uses a roller chain on the outer tensioner but retains the silent link chain on the back of the cam plate so you haven't really solved the problem.
Gear driven cams are an option if crank run out is within .003. If not I would replace the shoes with Cycos and check every 15 to 20K or I'd put together a hydraulic set up that used a roller chain front and back. The cams have to be changed because the inner journal is smaller on TC88s and they have teeth that won't accommodate roller chains. (stock cams)
But one thing is for certain; it isn't as bad as folks let on. And mostly, the folks who let on wouldn't know what they were looking at if you showed them.
Spring Loaded Cam Chain Tensioners were a short cut Harley took in the 1999 to 2006 model years of Twin Cams to cut EPA mandated noise control issues of the cam chain on those models
Unfortunately the plastic "shoes" employed on those years tend to self destruct at 20,000 miles or so. They kept the motor quiet but they also wore out because the tension was pretty tight!!!
A better solution to those problems employed STARTING 2006 was hydraulic cam chain tensioners instead of the harsher earlier spring type design. The Hydraulic type are GENTLER.
Yours is a 2009 and is therefore hydraulic. You should not even have to look at the issue until 50,000 miles. About the same time most modern cars with "Timing Belt Issues" need to be looked at.
Stop worrying. IF you own an early pre 2007 Twin Cam you really should enjoy taking off the mechanical belt tensioner at 20,000 miles and replacing the whole shebang with a better cam (Like a Harley 204) AND Hydraulic tensioners while you are at it.
The resulting boost in power and drivability will pay you back in spades. So if you have an early pre 2006 model Twin Cam HAVE FUN. The new cam will be a blast!
IF you have a later motor just accept the fact that cam tensioner belts wear out every 50,000 miles.
BIG DEAL.
Unfortunately the plastic "shoes" employed on those years tend to self destruct at 20,000 miles or so. They kept the motor quiet but they also wore out because the tension was pretty tight!!!
A better solution to those problems employed STARTING 2006 was hydraulic cam chain tensioners instead of the harsher earlier spring type design. The Hydraulic type are GENTLER.
Yours is a 2009 and is therefore hydraulic. You should not even have to look at the issue until 50,000 miles. About the same time most modern cars with "Timing Belt Issues" need to be looked at.
Stop worrying. IF you own an early pre 2007 Twin Cam you really should enjoy taking off the mechanical belt tensioner at 20,000 miles and replacing the whole shebang with a better cam (Like a Harley 204) AND Hydraulic tensioners while you are at it.
The resulting boost in power and drivability will pay you back in spades. So if you have an early pre 2006 model Twin Cam HAVE FUN. The new cam will be a blast!
IF you have a later motor just accept the fact that cam tensioner belts wear out every 50,000 miles.
BIG DEAL.
#40
02-13-2016, 03:44 PM
