The Boss at 105th
#21
09-12-2008, 11:00 PM
agreed
Me too. I just don't like people posing as red, white, and blue poster boys to sell albums especially in such a hypocritical fashion. I think HD made a bad choice, that's all. And I don't like a-holes (not you) accusing me of making something up when clearly this has been an issue with Springsteen for a long time. But then that's the way of the ignorant mind, kill the messenger if you don't like the message.
#22
09-12-2008, 11:19 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
HERE ARE SOME FACTS:
Dave Marsh's Born to Run, if you can find it (Amazon says "limited availability," which I assume means it's out of print) talks about Springsteen's experience with the draft board. Essentially he did dodge the draft, though the official line is that he failed the physical.
Here is an interview with the man himself where he talks briefly about it:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Interviewer]:You hadn't been to Vietnam yourself.
[Bruce]: No, I did the draft-dodger rag.
[Int]: Did you feel guilty about not going?
[Bruce]: No, but it was such a part of growing up at that time, it was in your home every single night. My drummer in The Castiles went - and he died. I remember a fella was the best front man in New Jersey at the time, Walter Cichone, and he joined the Marines and was posted missing in action, and on the street people were frightened and everybody was trying to figure out how to get out of the draft. Whether you were there or whether you were at home in the United States, it was a defining moment in American culture. It finds its way time and again into some of my songs. Whether you went or not, it was a big part of your life.
At the time I was 18 or 19, I didn't come out of a political household, I was part of what you'd consider the counterculture, though probably I was the conservative part. I never had any real drug experience, you know. I lived in a little town, and there were lines drawn everywhere.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IIRC, Springsteen has said he filled out the draft forms in crazy ways and said he was a homosexual and so forth. But if you know anything about Springsteen's life in the late 1960s, you know he probably was in a condition where he would fail a physical, and the military would take a look at him - skinny, wild hair, not particularly articulate yet - and take a pass on him.
He talks a little about his draft experience in his introduction to "The River" on the Live 1975-85 album.
So I guess it's fair to say he was a draft dodger. (After all, he said he was.) But, hell, we're talking about Vietnam here - not exactly our nation's finest moment so I guess my father and his friends who ate mud and bled in the jungle don't matter as much as your favorite rock star.
Dave Marsh's Born to Run, if you can find it (Amazon says "limited availability," which I assume means it's out of print) talks about Springsteen's experience with the draft board. Essentially he did dodge the draft, though the official line is that he failed the physical.
Here is an interview with the man himself where he talks briefly about it:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Interviewer]:You hadn't been to Vietnam yourself.
[Bruce]: No, I did the draft-dodger rag.
[Int]: Did you feel guilty about not going?
[Bruce]: No, but it was such a part of growing up at that time, it was in your home every single night. My drummer in The Castiles went - and he died. I remember a fella was the best front man in New Jersey at the time, Walter Cichone, and he joined the Marines and was posted missing in action, and on the street people were frightened and everybody was trying to figure out how to get out of the draft. Whether you were there or whether you were at home in the United States, it was a defining moment in American culture. It finds its way time and again into some of my songs. Whether you went or not, it was a big part of your life.
At the time I was 18 or 19, I didn't come out of a political household, I was part of what you'd consider the counterculture, though probably I was the conservative part. I never had any real drug experience, you know. I lived in a little town, and there were lines drawn everywhere.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IIRC, Springsteen has said he filled out the draft forms in crazy ways and said he was a homosexual and so forth. But if you know anything about Springsteen's life in the late 1960s, you know he probably was in a condition where he would fail a physical, and the military would take a look at him - skinny, wild hair, not particularly articulate yet - and take a pass on him.
He talks a little about his draft experience in his introduction to "The River" on the Live 1975-85 album.
So I guess it's fair to say he was a draft dodger. (After all, he said he was.) But, hell, we're talking about Vietnam here - not exactly our nation's finest moment so I guess my father and his friends who ate mud and bled in the jungle don't matter as much as your favorite rock star.
Draft dodgers fled to Canada, Springsteen did what he called the draft dodger rag, and didn't present himself as a poster boy for the military. What he did present himself for was a physical, which he failed. He didn't and doesn't brag about it, and if I'd failed mine, I wouldn't have had to go either.
I'm still always a little amused by people who make such a big deal out of an entertainer's political views, but as someone else mentioned, don't give a rat's *** that most of them are in and out of rehab and jails for their drug addictions and lifestyles. Springsteen has kept his nose pretty clean for a lot of years in an environment littered with casualties of the "sex, drugs, and rock n roll" lifestyle. Just sayin, let's get our priorities straight.
#23
09-12-2008, 11:52 PM
uh, okay
Draft dodgers fled to Canada, Springsteen did what he called the draft dodger rag, and didn't present himself as a poster boy for the military. What he did present himself for was a physical, which he failed. He didn't and doesn't brag about it, and if I'd failed mine, I wouldn't have had to go either.
I'm still always a little amused by people who make such a big deal out of an entertainer's political views, but as someone else mentioned, don't give a rat's *** that most of them are in and out of rehab and jails for their drug addictions and lifestyles. Springsteen has kept his nose pretty clean for a lot of years in an environment littered with casualties of the "sex, drugs, and rock n roll" lifestyle. Just sayin, let's get our priorities straight.
I'm still always a little amused by people who make such a big deal out of an entertainer's political views, but as someone else mentioned, don't give a rat's *** that most of them are in and out of rehab and jails for their drug addictions and lifestyles. Springsteen has kept his nose pretty clean for a lot of years in an environment littered with casualties of the "sex, drugs, and rock n roll" lifestyle. Just sayin, let's get our priorities straight.
I don't mean to bust on you but there is plenty of evidence that supports the fact that he avoided his duty to this country and turned around and used patriotism to his advantage. Just war or not, and trust me I don't believe it was, when the call is made people of character, like yourself, step up.
I don't really get wound up about other musicians but the war thing just pisses me off and maybe Springsteen is the focus of all that negative energy. I probably wouldn't have even wasted this much time on it had some of the comments, including the administrator and his assinine input, not fired me up.
Thanks for your service, hope I didn't **** you off.
#24
09-13-2008, 12:20 AM
I couldn't care less about Springsteen's politics. He's still about 3 heads and shoulders above the average Joe blow and the nosepickers country band in the realm of talent. As far as his service or non service, heck we have a sitting president who's an admitted ex coke addict and drunk. At least Springsteen didn't suck on the goverment tit for 20 or 30 yrs in some desk jockey job, then spend the next 40 yrs whining about it, which is more than I can say for a lot of people.
#25
09-13-2008, 03:07 AM
As a Brit myself I would like to comment that there was no political element or intention in my original post, so shame on those of you who have hijacked it!
Go take a cold shower and a long ride!
#26
09-13-2008, 03:50 AM
Bruce rocked. I had a great time. It was an added bonus for a jersey girl who rode her bike to Milwaukee.
#27
09-13-2008, 10:28 AM
Tourer
[QUOTE] I'm still always a little amused by people who make such a big deal out of an entertainer's political views, but as someone else mentioned, don't give a rat's *** that most of them are in and out of rehab and jails for their drug addictions and lifestyles. Springsteen has kept his nose pretty clean for a lot of years in an environment littered with casualties of the "sex, drugs, and rock n roll" lifestyle. Just sayin, let's get our priorities straight.[UNQUOTE]
PRIORITIES ?!?
Priorities are whatever you make 'em.......
The ONLY reason I'm commenting here is because I feel somewhat "qualified" since I was in the U.S. ARMY from 1966-1972 in the middle of the war.........
PRIORITIES is a "choice" made by an individual to do drugs, become an alcoholic, dodge the DRAFT OR.........
You can be proud of being an AMERICAN, living in the BEST country on the planet, answering a call from your Government so maybe others won't need to go, working hard, raising a family to the best of your ability and having RESPECT for others and living your life with HONOR.
I really don't expect anyone to understand some of this, unless this is the way your Mother & Father raised you, or you served your country in the MILITARY.
Throughout my life we've all seen remarks by people that are disparaging to our Country, our President and our government.
I, for one, feel "privileged" to have lived here for the past 61 years and wouldn't trade it
for anything.
My personal opinion is that military service should be required (maybe 2 years) for all young men, not necessarily women...... I won't even go there.......
again, I've learned this from my own experience.
I apologize for rambling here, but if you did NOT serve in the military it's very difficult to understand...........
I THANK God there are young people today that are "stepping up" and serving their country........ there is and always will be those that will not take the "OATH".......
THAT'S THEIR PRIORITY! I don't want anybody to take this personally, not meant that way..........OK.....I'll LEAVE NOW..........
PRIORITIES ?!?
Priorities are whatever you make 'em.......
The ONLY reason I'm commenting here is because I feel somewhat "qualified" since I was in the U.S. ARMY from 1966-1972 in the middle of the war.........
PRIORITIES is a "choice" made by an individual to do drugs, become an alcoholic, dodge the DRAFT OR.........
You can be proud of being an AMERICAN, living in the BEST country on the planet, answering a call from your Government so maybe others won't need to go, working hard, raising a family to the best of your ability and having RESPECT for others and living your life with HONOR.
I really don't expect anyone to understand some of this, unless this is the way your Mother & Father raised you, or you served your country in the MILITARY.
Throughout my life we've all seen remarks by people that are disparaging to our Country, our President and our government.
I, for one, feel "privileged" to have lived here for the past 61 years and wouldn't trade it
for anything.
My personal opinion is that military service should be required (maybe 2 years) for all young men, not necessarily women...... I won't even go there.......
again, I've learned this from my own experience.
I apologize for rambling here, but if you did NOT serve in the military it's very difficult to understand...........
I THANK God there are young people today that are "stepping up" and serving their country........ there is and always will be those that will not take the "OATH".......
THAT'S THEIR PRIORITY! I don't want anybody to take this personally, not meant that way..........OK.....I'll LEAVE NOW..........
Last edited by Miami Cruzer; 09-13-2008 at 10:37 AM.
#28
09-13-2008, 10:34 AM
[QUOTE=Miami Cruzer;3864515]
Well said!!
I'm still always a little amused by people who make such a big deal out of an entertainer's political views, but as someone else mentioned, don't give a rat's *** that most of them are in and out of rehab and jails for their drug addictions and lifestyles. Springsteen has kept his nose pretty clean for a lot of years in an environment littered with casualties of the "sex, drugs, and rock n roll" lifestyle. Just sayin, let's get our priorities straight.[UNQUOTE]
PRIORITIES ?!?
Priorities are whatever you make 'em.......
The ONLY reason I'm commenting here is because I feel somewhat "qualified" since I was in the U.S. ARMY from 1966-1972 in the middle of the war.........
PRIORITIES is a "choice" made by an individual to do drugs, become an alcoholic, dodge the DRAFT OR.........
You can be proud of being an AMERICAN, living in the BEST country on the planet, answering a call from your Government so maybe others won't need to go, working hard, raising a family to the best of your ability and having RESPECT for others and living your life with HONOR.
I really don't expect anyone to understand some of this, unless this is the way your Mother & Father raised you, or you served your country in the MILITARY.
Throughout my life we've all seen remarks by people that are disparaging to our Country, our President and our government.
I, for one, feel "privileged" to have lived here for the past 61 years and wouldn't trade it
for anything.
My personal opinion is that military service should be required (maybe 2 years) for all young men, not necessarily women...... I won't even go there.......
again, I've learned this from my own experience.
I apologize for rambling here, but if you did NOT serve in the military it's very difficult to understand...........
I THANK God there are young people today that are "stepping up" and serving their country........ there is and always will be those that will not take the "OATH".......
THAT'S THEIR PRIORITY!
PRIORITIES ?!?
Priorities are whatever you make 'em.......
The ONLY reason I'm commenting here is because I feel somewhat "qualified" since I was in the U.S. ARMY from 1966-1972 in the middle of the war.........
PRIORITIES is a "choice" made by an individual to do drugs, become an alcoholic, dodge the DRAFT OR.........
You can be proud of being an AMERICAN, living in the BEST country on the planet, answering a call from your Government so maybe others won't need to go, working hard, raising a family to the best of your ability and having RESPECT for others and living your life with HONOR.
I really don't expect anyone to understand some of this, unless this is the way your Mother & Father raised you, or you served your country in the MILITARY.
Throughout my life we've all seen remarks by people that are disparaging to our Country, our President and our government.
I, for one, feel "privileged" to have lived here for the past 61 years and wouldn't trade it
for anything.
My personal opinion is that military service should be required (maybe 2 years) for all young men, not necessarily women...... I won't even go there.......
again, I've learned this from my own experience.
I apologize for rambling here, but if you did NOT serve in the military it's very difficult to understand...........
I THANK God there are young people today that are "stepping up" and serving their country........ there is and always will be those that will not take the "OATH".......
THAT'S THEIR PRIORITY!
#29
09-13-2008, 10:51 AM
[QUOTE=Miami Cruzer;3864515]
I served for 14 years active, 6 in the Reserves. Retired in 2003. Have been deployed three times to the Middle East, once with the military and twice in my civilian law enforcement job. My father was career Air Force and a decorated Vietnam vet. His father served in WWII. I am about as flag-waving a Reagan conservative as you will ever meet.
And I love Bruce Springsteen. I don't for one moment feel my enjoyment of his music is a conflict with my past, my loyalties, or my values system. In fact, if memory serves me, I and all the other vets here were fighting for a country where you can speak your mind. I do draw the line at some folks--the Dixie Chicks, Susan Sarandon and Sean Penn come to mind--but not at one of the world's greatest rockers just because he and I disagree on how to fight a war on terror.
And here's the final bit of irony: We're on a biker site. Not only that, but a Harley-Davidson site. We're supposed to be the poster children for the "I do what I want, ride what I want, dress how I want, etc......and FU if you don't like it" mindset. But we're sniping at one another over who likes what rock and roll band. ****, I don't care if you like Boy George, Britney Spears, or for that matter the Dixie Chicks. Just listen to the music--or don't.
I'm still always a little amused by people who make such a big deal out of an entertainer's political views, but as someone else mentioned, don't give a rat's *** that most of them are in and out of rehab and jails for their drug addictions and lifestyles. Springsteen has kept his nose pretty clean for a lot of years in an environment littered with casualties of the "sex, drugs, and rock n roll" lifestyle. Just sayin, let's get our priorities straight.[UNQUOTE]
PRIORITIES ?!?
Priorities are whatever you make 'em.......
The ONLY reason I'm commenting here is because I feel somewhat "qualified" since I was in the U.S. ARMY from 1966-1972 in the middle of the war.........
PRIORITIES is a "choice" made by an individual to do drugs, become an alcoholic, dodge the DRAFT OR.........
You can be proud of being an AMERICAN, living in the BEST country on the planet, answering a call from your Government so maybe others won't need to go, working hard, raising a family to the best of your ability and having RESPECT for others and living your life with HONOR.
I really don't expect anyone to understand some of this, unless this is the way your Mother & Father raised you, or you served your country in the MILITARY.
Throughout my life we've all seen remarks by people that are disparaging to our Country, our President and our government.
I, for one, feel "privileged" to have lived here for the past 61 years and wouldn't trade it
for anything.
My personal opinion is that military service should be required (maybe 2 years) for all young men, not necessarily women...... I won't even go there.......
again, I've learned this from my own experience.
I apologize for rambling here, but if you did NOT serve in the military it's very difficult to understand...........
I THANK God there are young people today that are "stepping up" and serving their country........ there is and always will be those that will not take the "OATH".......
THAT'S THEIR PRIORITY! I don't want anybody to take this personally, not meant that way..........OK.....I'll LEAVE NOW..........
PRIORITIES ?!?
Priorities are whatever you make 'em.......
The ONLY reason I'm commenting here is because I feel somewhat "qualified" since I was in the U.S. ARMY from 1966-1972 in the middle of the war.........
PRIORITIES is a "choice" made by an individual to do drugs, become an alcoholic, dodge the DRAFT OR.........
You can be proud of being an AMERICAN, living in the BEST country on the planet, answering a call from your Government so maybe others won't need to go, working hard, raising a family to the best of your ability and having RESPECT for others and living your life with HONOR.
I really don't expect anyone to understand some of this, unless this is the way your Mother & Father raised you, or you served your country in the MILITARY.
Throughout my life we've all seen remarks by people that are disparaging to our Country, our President and our government.
I, for one, feel "privileged" to have lived here for the past 61 years and wouldn't trade it
for anything.
My personal opinion is that military service should be required (maybe 2 years) for all young men, not necessarily women...... I won't even go there.......
again, I've learned this from my own experience.
I apologize for rambling here, but if you did NOT serve in the military it's very difficult to understand...........
I THANK God there are young people today that are "stepping up" and serving their country........ there is and always will be those that will not take the "OATH".......
THAT'S THEIR PRIORITY! I don't want anybody to take this personally, not meant that way..........OK.....I'll LEAVE NOW..........
And I love Bruce Springsteen. I don't for one moment feel my enjoyment of his music is a conflict with my past, my loyalties, or my values system. In fact, if memory serves me, I and all the other vets here were fighting for a country where you can speak your mind. I do draw the line at some folks--the Dixie Chicks, Susan Sarandon and Sean Penn come to mind--but not at one of the world's greatest rockers just because he and I disagree on how to fight a war on terror.
And here's the final bit of irony: We're on a biker site. Not only that, but a Harley-Davidson site. We're supposed to be the poster children for the "I do what I want, ride what I want, dress how I want, etc......and FU if you don't like it" mindset. But we're sniping at one another over who likes what rock and roll band. ****, I don't care if you like Boy George, Britney Spears, or for that matter the Dixie Chicks. Just listen to the music--or don't.
#30
09-13-2008, 12:49 PM
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[quote=laz263;3864565]
I served for 14 years active, 6 in the Reserves. Retired in 2003. Have been deployed three times to the Middle East, once with the military and twice in my civilian law enforcement job. My father was career Air Force and a decorated Vietnam vet. His father served in WWII. I am about as flag-waving a Reagan conservative as you will ever meet.
And I love Bruce Springsteen. I don't for one moment feel my enjoyment of his music is a conflict with my past, my loyalties, or my values system. In fact, if memory serves me, I and all the other vets here were fighting for a country where you can speak your mind. I do draw the line at some folks--the Dixie Chicks, Susan Sarandon and Sean Penn come to mind--but not at one of the world's greatest rockers just because he and I disagree on how to fight a war on terror.
And here's the final bit of irony: We're on a biker site. Not only that, but a Harley-Davidson site. We're supposed to be the poster children for the "I do what I want, ride what I want, dress how I want, etc......and FU if you don't like it" mindset. But we're sniping at one another over who likes what rock and roll band. ****, I don't care if you like Boy George, Britney Spears, or for that matter the Dixie Chicks. Just listen to the music--or don't.
You and I usually never agree and in fact you put me on your ignore list so you won't see this
But I couldn't agree more. In fact I think all politics should be removed from this site. It doesn't do ANY good what so ever.
I served for 14 years active, 6 in the Reserves. Retired in 2003. Have been deployed three times to the Middle East, once with the military and twice in my civilian law enforcement job. My father was career Air Force and a decorated Vietnam vet. His father served in WWII. I am about as flag-waving a Reagan conservative as you will ever meet.
And I love Bruce Springsteen. I don't for one moment feel my enjoyment of his music is a conflict with my past, my loyalties, or my values system. In fact, if memory serves me, I and all the other vets here were fighting for a country where you can speak your mind. I do draw the line at some folks--the Dixie Chicks, Susan Sarandon and Sean Penn come to mind--but not at one of the world's greatest rockers just because he and I disagree on how to fight a war on terror.
And here's the final bit of irony: We're on a biker site. Not only that, but a Harley-Davidson site. We're supposed to be the poster children for the "I do what I want, ride what I want, dress how I want, etc......and FU if you don't like it" mindset. But we're sniping at one another over who likes what rock and roll band. ****, I don't care if you like Boy George, Britney Spears, or for that matter the Dixie Chicks. Just listen to the music--or don't.
But I couldn't agree more. In fact I think all politics should be removed from this site. It doesn't do ANY good what so ever.