You actually belive that? Look at Nike, they moved all production to the far east over a decade ago, and you still $100+ shoes.

The prices aren't going to drop.

 

Amen to that!
Come on down!!

 

I agree. But I don't need HD lower their prices. I want HD build a better quality bikes with the most leading edge technology. Let American bike be the top again.

 

And sitting on your *** in the executive suite making decisions to cut costs and quality by using cheap bearings for the crank and cams plus all the other changes they've made for years to speed manufacturing at the expense of quality isn't worth the millions the corporate poobahs pay themselves. Maybe if they set the example by cutting their own GROSSLY exaggerated salaries and bonuses and getting rid of the corporate dead weight they'd be on stronger ground to negotiate with the union.

 

I thought harley was on top. How many bikers are going to attend yamaha or honda's 105th celebration? How many kawasaki tattoos do you see out there on people? Prolly not even close to the thousands upon thousands of bikers who went to the Harley 105th! Also my 2008 Street Glide is the best bike I have ever owned and it was built here in the USA by an American company. I couldn't be happier. I was glad to pay the $20K it cost to keep my fellow americans working.

 

Let me see if I have this correct...

Because the executives are greedy, it's ok for the unions to be greedy.....

Yeah. So how well is that logic getting us along right now?


Executives feel that they should make alot more than the average worker bee... Right or wrong, that's how they think. If your average worker bee is making $80,000 a year, it will artificially inflate executive salaries as well.

I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's the realities of it.

 

LOL...reading comprehension is a bit lacking there my friend, never did I say that PA workers suck, what I did say was PA doesn't need to step up again for another company that reaps the benefits of free taxes and bails when its over.

I kinda wish the wife's Pontiac Solstice was built in PA instead of Delaware, maybe we wouldn't have had the hassle of getting rid of the first poorly constructed one through a GM buyback, for the one she has now.

 

It sounds to me that a few on the forum are or were involved in a Union shop, the rest have learned from what they read in the newspapers when something like this hits our economy. I worked in Hagerstown MD @ Mack Trucks Inc. (now owned by Volvo).

In the late 60's and up through the mid 70's our pay and benefits were going up pretty good. We made probably the highest wage in our area. Then a bad economic slump hit the trucking industry. We could see things changing on future contracts. That's when the concessions started really effecting us.

To answer Night Trains question about "Bonus Casual Days", They were actually 3 days of vacation that everyone got no matter how long you were there. Also they didn't have to be taken all together at one time. Since we didn't get earned sick days, you could use a Bonus day if you were sick. Or for anything else for that matter, this way you didn't have to get into your actual vacation weeks, which we had to take a week at a time.

I forgot to mention in the other post that when we made those concessions, our vacation time earned was frozen. Whatever you had at the time was it, I was just ready to have another year seniority earned for another week vacation and lost it.

Whenever it was contract time or if we were having a lay-off, our local newspaper The Hearld Mail would put in their slanted stories, what the Mack workers were making. It was true to a point but they were using a different scale. For example they took our Hourly wage + our health package + life insurance and anything else they could add on to come up with our "Hourly Wage". When everyone would read that, they would freak out and say "Look what those lazy Mack workers are making" what are they bitching about ? In an above post you will read about making $60 an hour to press a button. In reality he probably made $25 or less. The rest was NOT on his paycheck.

I retired 2 and a half years ago, and I was making around $24 an hour. I took the poll on this forum and I could see that most of you that took it are making over $55K a year, what does that come to by the hour. I had to work a bunch of overtime every week to make that kind of money....I once made $54K right before I retired. WOW.

Were were not allowed by LAW, to have a 401k to put money in because we have a pension for retirement. A portion of my wage was taken out from every hour worked the company did match some, I don't know how much, but I do know it wasn't dollar for dollar. I am glad that I get a pension seeing how the 401's tanked this year.

While I worked there 38 yrs, I was laid off many of them. For instance, I had just returned from a 4yr 2mo layoff (I had 21yrs seniority when I got laid off). I did work in NON Union businesses, I got along fine with my Bosses and workers. Most places won't hire you if they know you worked for Mack. They say he's lazy, wants everything given to him, NO THANKS. By the time I got 30 years in at Mack, they gave ma a lapel pin. I counted up all the lay-off time, Out of the 30yrs, I had actually worked 20. Those 10yrs lost were some REAL lean times for my family. I sold my 76 Superglide so I could make house payments.

I hope this gives you guys a little insight into being a Union worker. Up through the 80's till the present when I retired. The "Gravy" jobs you hear about, where you work very little, were long gone. Mack had to bring up their quality and be a leaner business to survive. When I retired we were running 120 diesel engines down the line every day. Me and a partner were on Sub assembly, I would build 60 sets of pistons and he would build the other 60. I should have been paid by the pound instead of the hour, there was no FO time, you worked whistle to whistle, 2breaks and a 20 minute lunch just like the Harley workers in York. I was there the other day, that's what they get.

I hope this clears up any feeling you may have about Union manufacturing jobs. We're not all lazy and getting rich on your dime when you buy something.

 

PaFatboy , my hat is off to you ..... I had a 96 CH613 I got 885,000 miles out of and only replaced the aircompressor , then 2 times brake shoes! You guys made a hell of a truck ..... I never liked the lack of quality of volvo trucks so , will never do a Mack again. That said . in the lean times would there been a chance of everyone of at least some senority been held on if the hourly cost was 24% less? If so then that would have been somewhat better than the 33% time you were laid off and no one would hire...... Just a thought , comes more fromthe heavy equipt operators that brag what thier hourly rate is ...... they get quiet when I ask what it averages out at 40 hours a week 52 weeks , when thier actual pay is figured in.

 

I toured the York plant last year. It could do with an upgrade. They don't need to relocate, they just need to improve what they do where they do it. The union should work at being part of the solution, not the problem.