This Executive Order is valid provided that the installation instructions for the Fuelpak FP3 will not recommend tuning the vehicle to specifications different from those of the original V & H Performance, Inc. application
So that is the confusing part.
The main page states this:
Exempted parts are add-on or modified parts that have undergone an ARB engineering evaluation. If the part or modification is shown to not increase vehicle emissions, it is granted an exemption to emission control system anti-tampering laws. This exemption is called an Executive Order (EO) and allows the modification to be installed on specific emission controlled vehicles. Every Executive Order part or modification has an assigned number that can be verified by Smog Check stations, BAR Referee stations, or by the ARB.
So if you take the main pages statement and the first part I pasted in I’m thinking that the FP3 would be approved because of the executive order number given to that device.
I guess the only way to confirm whether the FP3 is CARB approved is to either look at their website or call them.
If it was me, and I wanted to keep the warranty in place, I wouldn't do it. However, you may want to see if your dealer or V&H think that the old document will cover you. I'd be concerned using this document as an affirmative defense considering it specifically calls out models not covered by the Consent Decree. YMMV
The warranty language is pretty sweeping and explicit.
Someone was already denied coverage over their FP3 on a sumped motor.
Also the "C" in CARB stands for California and it should have nothing to do with Wisconsin.
One last match on the fire...I've been told by a parts supplier that the Moco language voids all factory warranty upon modification. The SE parts come with their own replacement warranty as part of the purchase that mimics the factory warranty if installed with 60 days, but it is in fact a new warranty supplied with the part. This is the Moco way around 3rd party replacement parts.
I don't know where this language is on paper so feel free to call BS, I'd like to see it too, but that was his advice regarding the sale of non SE parts. The warranty is intended to only cover their own patented manufactured design.
I’m with you on saving my warranty too. I am not messing around with my bike until the warranty is done. I was looking more towards those who did have the FP3 on their bikes. Might be something to argue with the company with. Just thinking of course.
I’m with you on saving my warranty too. I am not messing around with my bike until the warranty is done. I was looking more towards those who did have the FP3 on their bikes. Might be something to argue with the company with. Just thinking of course.
Borrowing psyshack's story from another thread regarding his FP3 story...enjoy
Originally Posted by psyshack
My powertrain warranty is voided.
Bought my King brand new 12/31/16. Paid cash! No financing, cash money Paid For In Full. Less TT&L.
Told my dealer I already had a set of Eliminator 400's and FP3 at the house ready to go on it as soon as I got it home. Dealer did not have a problem with it at all. If they would have said anything to me concerning the slips or tuner I would have returned them to J&P and bought HD's over priced junk and not batted a eye or used a four letter word. I had cash in my pocket. The bike was so near silent I would have thought Singer hand designed and manufactured it.
Paid for the bike and took a very detailed delivery on the bike, test road it all was good. Was a fantastic deal and beat the hell out of the Tulsa Dealers. Dealer 95 miles from my home it got a good break in ride home with three heat cycles home. Took the longish way home for 125 miles from dealer to my home. We had the ride / drive home setup. Wife wanted to stop and shop at points on the way home and I wanted to heat cycle the new scooter. Worked out great! Got home just before dark. Put the bike up after checking oil level and pulled the two outside plugs for a look see. All was good and it was the M8 HD had marketed. I was school girl giddy over this machine. This HD dealer had took over the building that was my Honda car dealer. Good Karma.
Continued with riding the next day. 1/1/17 what could be better! A new Harley paid for in full! After the Slips and FP3 were installed. Put 100 miles on it. Checked the belt, fluid levels, looked at the plugs. All good the engine is quite. Everything smooth and running in great! Happy as hell with the scooter. Yep HD just might have done better than the new AMF Junk I bought in 1978.
Just shy of 400 miles it started going wrong. The POS started sounding like a AMF Shovel. I had planned to do a complete three hole on it at 500 miles and it would never see the dealer again. Did a three hole and was shocked at what I saw on the drain plugs and in the pan. HD marketing,,, the SOB's. It became clear at 500 miles Briggs & Stratton China Motors knew more about building a ICE than HD.
Took it back to the dealer. First thing they looked at was the back tire. I laughed at them. Asked the lead tech, Think I abused it Sir? His answer,,, no Sir I just have to look. He takes the bike for a ride. Comes back and calls the useless SOB's in come suck me walkee. Tells me right then and there it isn't right. The useless SOB's at HD ask for a plug read/pics, and other useless crap. As Im telling the service manager the oil pump is crap! Then all the crap about machine debris and stuff comes out. HD all ready knows they have birthed a turd. Of that waste of time they put dielectric grease in the spark plug boots. The noise I'm hearing and the noise the lead tech is hearing is spark jump. HD breeds complete lying idiots! I'm told to ride it like I stole it!
At 1500 miles I can't stand it anymore. This great modern vintage hunk of junk is trash. By this time I had launched it hard a few times. Found out HD has no IDEA what a slipper clutch is muchless a gripper clutch. ( funny how there marketing toads that should be shot on sight don't mention that failure concerning the useless 2018's.) Hey lets celebrate!!!!! There still only 30 years behind grade school engineering. And please understand I had already chased down a harmonic in the front lower motor mount system. That harmonic turned out to be a manifestation of way over bored cylinder bores. >>>> Piston Slap!!! Great American top end production! Go Union Bro's! Or are they day labors?????
Bike goes back to the dealer just shy of 1600 miles. Oil pump is found to be crap. Goes from 0 psi to well over 50 psi and all over the place at spec testing. Engine taken down. Jugs found to be over bored. On the bench not in braces .003" front, .004" rear, oil pump junk all over the place. Stock 107 mill. Piston slap seen very clear. Rings still seated. Best new lawn mower engine I had ever seen. With jugs in braces front out .006
', rear .007". Great American production!
After seven weeks of Bull **** from the idiots in junkwalkee I demand a new bike or at least a brand new engine, tranny and primary. I ask the dealer many times if the FP3 is a issue on the bike? I had learned of the Consent Dickgree here on this site. Hell if I had known about that crap I would have never bought the bike. Would have bought a Yamahammer FJR1300. Which was my first choice. But I wanted to slow down and give HD a chance. And risk being a Beta tester. Mistake on my part.
HD sent Dano the Dick Head to my dealer. I knew I was screwed by that point. Had all ready bought a 2017 FRJ1300es by this point. Knew all HD had left was marketing. They have no engineering or production skills. Drove my OEM HD F-150 to the dealer for the meeting ready to haul my bike home in boxes. Sure enough Dano the I will suck HD/Obummer EPA dick voided my warranty. It got real ugly real fast and Dano the Dick Head and his boss's are worth a felony assault charge. Not a problem. What pissed me off about Dano the ***** Dick Head is when we met. The HD sack of **** did not want to stick his hand out for a hand shake nor did the POS ever give me his full name or a card. I work for a manufactures rep in the HVAC and Industrial world. I am the or have been the MR for Bell Gossett, Raypak, Spence Engineering, Babcox Wilcox, Hoffman, M&M, FE Myers, Goulds and others. I'm the Dano the Dick head of a industry in my region. How dare that idiot not even present a card and his full name. HD and there employee's means no class. Just fed. dick suckers looking to attract metro sexuals and snow flakes they can bully.
Bottom line my dealer rebuilt my bike with parts ave. at that time from a POS American Co free of charge. They still can't get the oil pump right. As a Harley ,,, it is the best handling HD I have ever ridden in my life. It's like a high speed tractor. The best lawn mower i've ever ridden. It's the best looking vintage/modern American over price hunk of pig iron ever made. And at 115 years... All they have is marketing. They lied and cheated and even sucked Trumps Rump to produce the best junk America can make.
Do I hate HD? No!!! Im ashamed of HD and there suck *** employees. I wont stand for junk in my industry. And put my job on the line every day fighting the factories and there marketing dept's and now useless engineering dept's.
Yeah I screwed up with a FP3 on my useless art decco scooter. But I never lied concerning it. HD lied out of the gate....
King bought nest to 09 HCII bought in the same building when a Honda Dealer. 152K miles on the HCHII and not a issue one. Funny how Honda can be a world leader in Cars, Motorcycles, Robotics, Aircraft. and win every thing they enter. And HD can't build a motorcycle right after 115 years of doing nothing but building junk...
Funny how my HD F-150 is bone stock. And at 90k miles it needs to be rebuildt from front to rear. The 5.4l crap Ford mill rattles from the time you start it until you shut it off. It's been a can of worms since new. A $38K dollar American made truck you can't count on to haul a HD. The wheels are worth more than the truck and bike combined.
New RG M8 bought 2.5 weeks after I bought my new King. His tried to kill him over the oil lines. A week after this pic was taken his pos HD oil lines leaked. Wreck,, week in the hospital, lawyers and all the other American Corporate BS he is still in court. Wishes he had never traded his Vicky in for the marketing disaster that is HD.
My KIng on a table it spent 8 weeks plus on because HD has not one damn clue what they are doing. But it's all my fault because they sucked Obummers Dick and they built complete junk. Darn that FP3. Go team vintage American made Junk!!! Go TEAM USA JUNK!!!
One last match on the fire...I've been told by a parts supplier that the Moco language voids all factory warranty upon modification. The SE parts come with their own replacement warranty as part of the purchase that mimics the factory warranty if installed with 60 days, but it is in fact a new warranty supplied with the part. This is the Moco way around 3rd party replacement parts.
Can you say monopoly?
No I get it. HD is dictating the rules but the way I see it, its wrong to void a warranty on a device that is CARB approved just because it’s not theirs. I think that may fall under the MM act.
I spent 3 hours on phone yesterday between dealers and otheres discussing warranty stuff. Here is the bottom line.... At dealer discretion to accept or decline warranty issues.
Here is the legal ease ****... They must prove beyond a doubt that the mod caused the problem.
Passed in 1975, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is a federal law that governs warranties on consumer products. Under this Act, sellers and manufacturers of consumer products must provide consumers with detailed information about warranty coverage. Sponsored by Senator Warren G. Magnuson of Washington and U.S. Representative John E. Moss of California, this Act affects both the obligations of warrantors and the rights of consumers under written warranties.
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!! No.
Originally Posted by Thingfish
I hear ya, I just don't think there's anyway around this issue unless:
A) You have a dealer willing to foot the bill to cover replacement/repairs.
B) You are prepared to go to court which would probably take years, cost more than several bikes, have no gurantee of winning.
If your bike is running great and you love it, I'd consider leaving the motor/tune alone. The sumping issue seem to have the characteristics of a sleeping elephant...the more poke it the higher the risk it will wake up and stop the fun.
I had a guy who designs, builds, and sells enhancement parts for a living tell me that. He HATED doing it as it means less business, but he's an honest guy who's seen a lot of bikes with the issues we're facing.
Yup.
Here's another point that gets lost in the stupidity: Your rights, no matter what the discussion, depends on your willingness to fight for them. "Money."
So, if you think the part(s) on your bike that failed should be covered under warranty, and your dealer denies your warranty claim, then what?
"They can't do that." HAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA. Too late, it's done.
So, you have to hire a lawyer and sue, both the dealer, because they will say that the MoCo denied the claim, and the MoCo. Then what?
Any ethical lawyer will tell you to go ahead and pay the $2,000 in repairs, because a lawsuit will cost $10,000, and if you lose, and you will, you pay.
No I get it. HD is dictating the rules but the way I see it, its wrong to void a warranty on a device that is CARB approved just because it’s not theirs. I think that may fall under the MM act.
It might fail under MM but their stipulation is that ANY mod voids...including their own SE parts so there is no "favoritism"....the "replacement warranty" is the new magic trick. I'll try to find the details.
No I get it. HD is dictating the rules but the way I see it, its wrong to void a warranty on a device that is CARB approved just because it’s not theirs. I think that may fall under the MM act.
I do appreciate you posting the info. Kinda raises more questions though right. So they loaded the FP3 (married it) but did they change out the OEM compliant map? Doesn't say so.
Also states, "Changes made to the design or operating conditions of the devices, as exempted by the Air Resources Board, which adversely affect the performance of the vehicle's pollution control system shall invalidate this Executive Order. "
Not sure what this really means as the FP3 like most tuners intended purpose is to increase performance usually at the cost of the OEM systems pollution control system.
So if you use the tuner for it's actual purpose it invalidates the Executive order. I guess... well until V&H comes out with EPA compliant tunes maybe.
12-05-2017, 07:44 PM
