I'm not sure I buy into that idea though, because Harley markets their own Stage kits, which are guaranteed not to void the warranty. The dealers don't seem to be having too much trouble selling 'em around here.

I will say that if it's anything like other industries, there's probably a lot more markup in aftermarket parts than in factory parts, so they're probably not making as much of the official Harley kits as they used to off aftermarket parts.

 

Maybe I explained it wrong. I am talking about salesmen trying sell the bike. This is before even making it to service or parts. I have been to 5 dealers looking at new bikes and have asked salemens about this voiding warranties for aftermarket parts and each of them have said "we don't and will not void any warranty for you making your bike run like a harley " One actually after talking for awhile said if you use screaming eagle stuff you will be fine.my point is that most salesmen will not tell you that the moco will void warranty for the stuff we have been doing for years.

 

I wrote a big rebuttal to the "know it alls" and even sited my sources. Then I deleted the whole thing before posting it.

If you you choose to drink the koolaid not knowing the truth that is your decision or if you know the truth but still choose to drink the koolaid (like I am doing) more power to you. If you really believe that the Mothership is all powerful and all knowing always and forever, well then you saw it on the internet so it must be true.

Or you can spend a hour searching Google and reading other forums where you will find the truth. Up to you. I am not doing your homework.

I don't have a horse in this race. Like I said, I am planning on knowingly drinking the koolaid. I will have HD stage 2 done on my bike knowing that truth and that most aftermarket stages will wipe the floor with the HD ones. The only reason is that my my dealer threw in a very cheap 5 year ESP to close the deal and I just don't want to be bothered.

 

Only two places you need to go to find the truth. The first is right in the owner's manual - you can read the actual language of the warranty. It lays out exactly what the warranty will cover, what it won't cover, and why they can void it. The second is to read the EPA Consent Decree which governs why Harley is mandated by the federal government to void warranties if you use non-EPA-compliant tuners.

No dealer can void a warranty, and no dealer can prevent a warranty from being voided. All decisions about voiding warranties are strictly in Harley's hands, except for where they've been overruled by the EPA. Harley can choose to not void a warranty if they feel like being nice, but they cannot choose to disobey the EPA Consent Decree.

 

You are absolutely correct. They have had the right for years it is stated in the owners manual. I have personally witness them voiding a powertrain warranty on a buddies 17 street glide. I just find it bad business when a salesman tells you they wont do it to just get a sale

 

No one said anything different. Not sure what your point is. My point is that there is ECMs which leave zero footprint after they are used to replace the original factory tune.

 

And my point is -- that ain't necessarily so. They may THINK they leave no footprint, but as has been documented in that Ford article, there are other ways for the manufacturer to tell that the computer has been reflashed.

I don't doubt that the guys who make the tuners think in good faith that they leave zero footprint, but -- some folks also think that deleting an email means that it's actually deleted. Ain't so. Having been a professional computer programmer for many years, I would find it extremely doubtful that Harley wouldn't have left some way for them to tell. # of restarts since last flash is a very simple one that leaves an obvious trail.

 

^^^Spot on. Anything we can think of to game the system, I guarantee those engineers are five steps ahead of us. I used to work in the automotive industry and I had to deny many a claim for shenanigans.

 

Add the fact that in case of anything major, the dealer has to contact and get approval from the Motor Company before doing the repair. Dealers don't eat the cost.

 

Well I am debating on what I will do while
Under warranty. Until then I will just sit back and wait to see the results of
The ineveitable class action law suit brought on and supported by precedent and a federal agency demanding that a business violate a federal act that states you cannot void a warranty unless you can prove the modification caused the failure.
And I am not arguing either way. But as I stated in another post, if the entire warranty is to be voided, when a person brings in a brake issue, or any other issue that could cause an accident, and is told Warranty is voided, and then there is an accident big or small, well if they survive it, they and their lawyer will be very wealthy, god forbid, if they don’t survive it the family and their lawyer will be very wealthy.