bummed,think my m8 sumped
#61
09-26-2018, 12:14 PM
As long as you have the know how or the guts to grab a service manual and take it on yourself this is by far the better way to go. The service dept at the dealership doesn't make squat off a recall part or moco fix. I have a 2014 3500 Dodge, it just had the new recall water pump installed after 3 years of waiting. These problems are not just Harley related, it's across the board of any major vehicle manufacturer in mass production. Tesla is another great example. Seems to me the new cam plate and O ring may be the mocos fix for the sumping issue which is happening to about 1% of the bikes they roll out. That's a small fraction in the grand scheme of things.
#62
09-26-2018, 12:21 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
That's true for software related things but they've had a hell of a time with those fancy door handles since day one. Also they've had trouble with body parts fitting. Wouldn't it be great if HD could simply download a fix for your bike? Maybe with the Livewire that's how it will go down.
#63
09-26-2018, 12:27 PM
Road Warrior
Just curious where you got the 1% number from? Has Harley released that or is it someone's guess?
#64
09-26-2018, 12:38 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
I Actually I was quoting another thread that had numbers posted to it. Someone had a picture of sumping related issues from the moco in a bulletin for company use and posted it on here. It was from early last year so the numbers could be way off now.
If it was a common issue and was happening to say 25% of all the bikes manufactured the government would step in and make them do a mandatory recall. I just don't think it's that high of a number.
I will say it seems to happen more to the guys with CVO's and Stage 4 builds more than anyone else. At least that's what I've seen on here and when something bad happens to a new Harley it takes all of a few minutes for someone to create an account and post here asking if anyone else is experiencing these issues.
If it was a common issue and was happening to say 25% of all the bikes manufactured the government would step in and make them do a mandatory recall. I just don't think it's that high of a number.
I will say it seems to happen more to the guys with CVO's and Stage 4 builds more than anyone else. At least that's what I've seen on here and when something bad happens to a new Harley it takes all of a few minutes for someone to create an account and post here asking if anyone else is experiencing these issues.
#65
09-26-2018, 12:52 PM
I Actually I was quoting another thread that had numbers posted to it. Someone had a picture of sumping related issues from the moco in a bulletin for company use and posted it on here. It was from early last year so the numbers could be way off now.
If it was a common issue and was happening to say 25% of all the bikes manufactured the government would step in and make them do a mandatory recall. I just don't think it's that high of a number.
I will say it seems to happen more to the guys with CVO's and Stage 4 builds more than anyone else. At least that's what I've seen on here and when something bad happens to a new Harley it takes all of a few minutes for someone to create an account and post here asking if anyone else is experiencing these issues.
If it was a common issue and was happening to say 25% of all the bikes manufactured the government would step in and make them do a mandatory recall. I just don't think it's that high of a number.
I will say it seems to happen more to the guys with CVO's and Stage 4 builds more than anyone else. At least that's what I've seen on here and when something bad happens to a new Harley it takes all of a few minutes for someone to create an account and post here asking if anyone else is experiencing these issues.
The following 2 users liked this post by Heatwave:
saddlebag (10-11-2018),
triumph900 (10-02-2018)
#66
09-26-2018, 01:16 PM
Road Warrior
Based on my 2+ years closely following and being involved in sumping issues. Dealing with multiple dealerships and Corporate HD. Following multiple forums. Tracking M8 sales since launch. My semi-educated guestimate is that actual REPORTED sumping is between 4-8% of all M8s produced to date. Incidence is higher with larger displacement and Stage Kits. Lower incidence with Softails. But ALL M8s can ultimately display symptoms of sumping. Also note that I made my guestimate of "REPORTED" sumping between 4-8%. I personally believe that MANY more M8 bikes are actually sumping, perhaps modestly with low-grade sumping, and those M8 bike owners just aren't aware that its happening or how to tell their bike is sumping. I would guess more than a majority of M8 bike owners would be clueless if you even raised the topic of "sumping". Many more M8s will have sumping failures down the road in addition to those that have been reported so far. Just my opinion.
#68
09-26-2018, 01:30 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
If your estimates are on the high side. Say 8%. That is a really high number and I don't see any way for HD to skate on that. I would expect class action lawsuits at anything approaching that number. As car companies can testify too. I got a class action settlement from a car company where the estimated number of vehicles involved was well below 8%.
#69
09-26-2018, 01:36 PM
As for percentages... I don't think it's as simple as that - It seems to be higher in some areas than others.
Example - my local dealer had "just over" 2 dozen bikes returned for sumping problems. He didn't say how many he'd sold in that time (jan-aug 18) but his entire sales (s/hand as well as new) he said were "about 1000".
Since I don't know how many were M8 sales, it's pointless to conjecture on a percentage - but it has to be higher than 2.4% (24 in 1000 = 2.4 in 100, 2.4%).
The other problem is peoples' attitude - a combination of the American "Great Freedom Machine" (the Brits and the Aussies never grew up with that fantasy) as well as the fanboy attitudes of "how dare you criticise this great American machine/dream" and "if you don't have one you can't talk about it" (which is patently moronic).
Then you add in the dealers who (supposedly) either don't have a clue or deliberately deny any knowledge (as if they don't read the bulletins?)
The end result - this whole thing stinks more than a rancid dead dog on the roadside...
If the 2019 bikes are still sumping then HD will very likely not see me again (like i said, I'm not one of the brainwashed people in the "Can't hear you over the sound of my freedom" group)
Example - my local dealer had "just over" 2 dozen bikes returned for sumping problems. He didn't say how many he'd sold in that time (jan-aug 18) but his entire sales (s/hand as well as new) he said were "about 1000".
Since I don't know how many were M8 sales, it's pointless to conjecture on a percentage - but it has to be higher than 2.4% (24 in 1000 = 2.4 in 100, 2.4%).
The other problem is peoples' attitude - a combination of the American "Great Freedom Machine" (the Brits and the Aussies never grew up with that fantasy) as well as the fanboy attitudes of "how dare you criticise this great American machine/dream" and "if you don't have one you can't talk about it" (which is patently moronic).
Then you add in the dealers who (supposedly) either don't have a clue or deliberately deny any knowledge (as if they don't read the bulletins?)
The end result - this whole thing stinks more than a rancid dead dog on the roadside...
If the 2019 bikes are still sumping then HD will very likely not see me again (like i said, I'm not one of the brainwashed people in the "Can't hear you over the sound of my freedom" group)
Last edited by OzHD; 09-26-2018 at 01:38 PM.
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saddlebag (10-11-2018)
#70
09-26-2018, 01:43 PM
A class action suit will result in "discovery". Real FACTS and INCIDENT RATES will become available for the public to make a better, more informed buying decision going forward.