Spinning Starter
 

Before you think "Oh no, not again", I found some great information in the threads already covering this. The weak battery is definitely a possibility and I'll flip the washer in the solenoid for good measure.
I'm posting this because I came across something puzzling during my troubleshooting. With the battery out of the bike and all 3 wires to the solenoid disconnected, I read an open circuit between the main input and output posts on the solenoid. I connected the cable from the starter to the solenoid (other two wires still disconnected) and the circuit closed. I don't understand how that can happen - especially when the battery is out of the bike.

Gary, You should read open between the battery and starter posts on the solenoid. These are the 2 posts the copper washer you plan to flip connects when you hit the starter button. When you connected the cable from the solenoid to the starter you should still be open because the solenoid is not enregized pushing the copper washer to the posts. If you are closed it would suggest your starter is shorting to ground and the positive battery cable is either touching the frame or has a short to ground. What I am trying to say is connecting the starter to the solenoid should not create a connection unless you are creating a connection through grounded or shorted wiring and starter

early / late shovels and even some early evos had this starter arrangment - and if you have a worn clutch hub gear or a china inner or outer primary the alignment is subject to being inncorrect /

did you just have it apart and after puting it back together this happened ???? its an align issue

if its been sitting a while and this happened it dry and the starter linkage is sticking

or the wiring is not correct in some way - and or the starter relay is bad and or the ground is not good on it if its a metal one E / shovel type lots of things / need more info to help - jz

Garry, are you checking this with the wires disconnected from the solenoid itself so there is no wire connected at the solenoid except the wire to the starter motor? And is the solenoid still installed on the bike (grounded)? You have piqued my interest with this. Has the solenoid been rebuilt or has anyone been in it and possibly switched positions of the short and long copper studs? Is the starter motor connected to the short stud?
It's been a while since I have looked at the wiring inside the solenoid so I have to poke around to gather some info before I may be able to figure this out. What I am trying to say is it MIGHT be that this is not a short. Note that I said "MIGHT." Are you using an ohmmeter to check for continuity? If so, are you reading any ohms at all or a zero reading?
I hope you figure it out quickly. I'll try to help if you can give me answers to my questions. I gotta do some research on the solenoid while I wait for your answers and I gotta go back to work for a few days so I may not get back to you in a very timely manner. Good luck.
<edit> Shoot, I just realized you said the starter is spinning. Are you saying your starter motor is running when you push the button but that it is not cranking the engine over?

my guess was as soon as the battery is connected it spins the motor BUT the same thing 20 different words can be used to describe it -- a phone call and it can be sorted in 2 min

Yeah, I guess we will wait and see what additional info is offered.

I don't think it can be a short through the starter to ground because the cable from the battery was not on the input terminal. I won't say that the starter isn't shorting to ground which I'll check, but there was no path for it to get to the solenoid's input terminal.
It's got the original inner primary, a barnett clutch, and a NOS outer primary. All of that has been together for at least the last 3 years and has been working fine. It is a belt drive primary so it's dry in there...lubrication may be called for.
I failed to mention in my first post that the bendix pulled back. When the starter was spinning it was not engaged with the ring gear.
Megawatt - yes, I'm using an ohmmeter. With both wires disconnected it reads infinity. With the cable to the starter installed, I don't remember exactly but it was in the couple hundred ohms range, not a hard short.
The starter motor disengaged from the ring gear after the engined started but kept spinning. I killed the engine and turned the key off and it kept spinning. I had to disconnect the battery to stop it.
I think I answered most of the questions...thanks for the input guys.

Oh, so that's what it is doing.
You are on the right track checking the contacts inside the solenoid. Sounds like the contactor plate has somehow come loose in there and stayed on the motor contacts. Who knows what else it is touching in there since it is free to rattle around.
You may be able to fix it or maybe it's time for a new solenoid. Make sure the battery cable goes on the long stud and (of course) the starter cable on the short stud.

Have you pulled the outer primary yet?...I bet when you do....you find the circled part, bent, worn-out, damaged, jammed, or all of the above...it will keep the solenoid pushed all the way in and make connection..even with the battery disconnected.



http://i51.tinypic.com/16lg10x.jpg

Easy enough. During my reading yesterday I saw a lot of people have problems with the Accel solenoid (which I also have:icon_confused:). Any suggestions on brands? I assume Drag Specialties is also imported crap.

Thanks Tom - No I haven't pulled it apart yet, but I'll get one regardless since I'm going shopping anyway...after 32 years it's probably ready for a break.