Yes, carbon acids are formed in dirty oil, and it definitely wouldn't hurt to also change the oil before you put it away for the winter, and Harley does recommend that in their owners manual. But if one was only going to do one or the other, I would change the oil before I started it in the spring. If the oil still had some life in it before you put it away (was well below the 5000 mile oil change situation or whatever other standardyou're going by), then the corrosiveness of it wouldn't be nearly as bad as the condition of the oil with water in it in the spring, IMO. Water on engine parts and in oilis far more corrosive and destructivethan any carbon corrosions in oil, IMO, and new oil already comes with mild, non-harmful acids in it that work as a cleaning agent anyway, as I understand it.

But if it was my bike, I would change the oil in it both before I put it away and before I started it in the spring. If you're asking me if I do it this way, I ride my bike year 'round where I'm at, I never have to put it away for the winter.

And as for getting the cold oil out of the crankcase, as I said, I never had this problem so I've never had to try it on a Harley, but if I could get the oil out cold without starting it first, I would. Perhaps the oil pump is capable of pumping the oil out of the crankcase either with the lines on or by just disconnecting the lines at the pump and turning the engine over with the electric starter with the coil and spark plugs wires disconnected. This should be possible, unless higher RPM's are needed to pump all the oil back out of the crankcase; I don't know. But I would give this a shot first and anything else I could think of to get the cold oil out of the crankcase first, rather than starting up the engine with the contaminated oil in it. It might drain the battery to turn it over this much to get the oil pump to get all the oil out of the crankcase, I don't know, but a battery charger should solve this problem. Just don't let your starter get too hot if you try this method; let it cool off every now and then, if this method is feasible.

You might want to squirt a little top oil into each cylinder through the spark plug holes before you do this too, however.

And there is nothing bad about putting the cheaper oil into it to run through the engine to clean it out further and then drain it all out and put the synthetic in afterwards. Any synthetic that might still be in the engine will mix just fine with the non-synthetic. If the filter is new, I would remove it, drain all of the old oil out of it, fill it with the new cheap stuff, and then run the cheap stuff through the engine until it warms up. Then I would do another complete oil change with the synthetic, draining the cheap oil out of the oil filter once again if you didn't want to put on a new one, and fill the old filter with the synthetic this time and use it. 'Course it's always okay to use new filters each time, but I was just trying to save the person some money.

Look, this must have happened before, and there is no way that I would start up my engine with water-contaminated oil in it just so I could drain the oil out of it, if I didn't have to. I'm sure a Harley-Davidson service center could come up with a solution if none of these things work, but I have a feeling that the oil pump thingmay work.

 

Ok, but there is always oil left behind that doesn't drain. There is no point in remixing dino with syn.

 

I've always changed the oil and filter, added fuel stabilizer (in the gas tank of course), pulled the plugs and put some Mystery Oil down each hole, crank it over a few times (then put the plugs back in) before winter storage for the past 20 (this coming October) years. Spring time, remove the plugs then crank her a few times.......plugs back in and start her up! Midway through the season, another oil and filter change. So, basically an oil and filter change in the summer and one more before winter storage. Always 20W-50 synthetic and I have NEVER EVER put in H-D oil since I bought her in 1987! YES, I've had the "condensation" on the surface of the oil upon removing the oil dip stick after winter storage, but it was always a VERY SMALL percentage. NEVER had a problem.
(All the above is MY suggestion or opinion)


sambo42xa
Southern, NH
1988 883 Sportster (still fast & very nice sounding!)
2005 FLHTCI
1973 SS350 Sprint (under construction)
1942 XA (under construction)

 

Well golly, I just read a place in my owners manual that I've never read before, entitled "Removal From Storage," and in it it says:[/align][/align][/align]"CAUTION"[/align][/align]"Turn engine over a few times to be sure there is no oil in the crankcase; and that all oil has been pumped back into the oil tank. Stop engine and re-check oil level."[/align][/align]--[/align][/align]Sounds to me like the oil pump and starter are definitely capable of pumping all of the oil back out of the crankcase and into the oil tank again, before one starts up the engine, if I interpret this correctly.[/align][/align]I would imagine that this assumes the person would disconnect the spark plug wires first, though, so the engine doesn't start up.[/align][/align]'Looks to me like perhaps this oil in the crankcase thingisa regular thing after allfor you Eskimos up in the artic regions who have to store your Sporties in the winter; I wouldn't know.[/align]

 

That oil is fine if it was just changed before storage. To change it would be wasting money! It does not contaminate or "break down"by just sitting. If you did not start it and just let it sit it will not have condensation! Ride it like you stole it!!!!!

 

While he said the oil was not "milky" looking, he appeared tomentioned the oil possibly not looking right from perhaps a lot of moisture condensation collecting in it, which is why others including myself thought it would be best if he went ahead and changed it to be safe. Water can indeed accumulate through condensation inside of oil tanks and gas tanks.

No one here other than him is able to see the oil, so all anyone can do is offer blind advice on the matter.

A teaspoon or so of condensation is no real problem and wouldn't be noticed in the oil. But if the oil looked milky, then it should obviously be changed.

Condensation inside the oil tank can be a real problem during winter storage in some instances, and everything I've heard and read says not only to change the oil in such a case, but to also clean the tank on occasion as well if it needs it.

It also can affect the gas tank as well.

I would rather 'waste' a few quarts of oil than take a chance with an expensive Harley engine.

Personally, I doubt if it has too much water in it, but from what he said, I and some others advised him to be on the safe side and change it. What could it hurt, other than about $30.00 from his pocketbook or whatever.

I've never had this problem because like I said, I live in a warmer climate that allows me to ride my bike year round. I just simply told him that it's not worth taking a chance. And it's not.

I think if I lived in a real cold area where I had to winterize it, I might think about actually draining all of the old oil out and putting some very thin, cheap oil in it for the winter. The thinner oil wouldn't 'freeze' as easily, which might also be a problem in oil lines or whatever, and probably notcontribute to the condensation problem as easily. I think I would also squirt a little top oil into the spark plug holes as well, and turn the engine over a few times before I stored it. Some Duralube in place of the top oil would even be better, I would think. It wouldn't hurt to turn it over every now and then during the winter storage, as well, IMO.

 

Zeb, excellent advice! All I'm saying is that it will not collect condensation unless it was stopped and started without bringing up to full operating temp. I have always changed mine when storing (I live in the Northeast!) and never start the bike until I'm ready to ride in the spring and have never had a problems. Smokeygold

 

Well, as long as we're on the subject of oil changes, I'll toss in this 2 cents worth: I changed my oil and filter a while back -- by the book. As has been said, that only changes the oil in the tank, maybe half or two-thirds of it. I couldn't refill it with the amount specified in the manual or it would overfill; by the amount left in the engine. Of course when I pulled the dipstick after the change, the oil wasn't as clean as what came out of the bottle.

A buddy with a BT says his dealer leaves the oil filter off after an oil change and runs the engine long enough to purge the contaminated stuff out of the engine. Sounds messy and that method won't work on a Sportster. The Sportster engine runs it through the oil filter opposite from what the big Evos do. The shop manual has a nice diagram of how the lines are laid out and how the oil flows through the engine. Love that shop manual.

I saw an article about a setup from Rogue Chopper that would make it a much more effective way to do it, and the price wasn't totally unreasonable -- if you have an Evo. They have a kit for the Sportster engine, but it ain't cheap.

If anyone on here has an idea of how to do it on the cheap, I'd like to see it.

 

That's a very good point. I never saw that particular caution before. I will have to look it up and read it. I kind of stopped reading them awhile ago because they seem a little over the top. Maybe you might be able to easily pump the oil back into the oil tank by putting the bike into gear and spinning the rear wheel?

I think you can do it cheap by disconnecting the oil return line and putting it into an oil pan. Then cranking the engine over. That should spew out old oil trapped in the engine into the oil pan, while new oil should be fed in there via the oil feed line from the tank. Personally, I think it's more of a hassle than it's worth. Usually it's only about .6-1 quart still left in there.

 

10-4. Personally, I've never had to go through this problem, living in the sun belt like I do. I feel for you Eskimos, I really do.