Redline Primary Case Oil ?
#11
Would prefer NOT using Redline ester based 75W90 gear oil.
The oil is formulated with friction modifiers for hypoid gear differentials with with high degree of sliding frictional for optimum lubricity(slippyness).
Wet clutch systems do not prefer high lubricity lubricant because a slippy oiled clutch pack could slip.
The benefits of group 4 true synthetic based ester oil is of little benefit in a wet clutch /trans case.
Low oxidation rate does not apply.
low viscosity shear down (loss of viscosity)from oil shearing does not apply.
small molecule ester having high lubricity factor along with friction reducer modifier additives does not apply.
however what is important in a manual non syco transmission is anti impact and anti wear properties.
high sulfur concentration commonly found in conventional gear oil helps reduce wear of gear cogs
which causes the trans to slip out of gear.
Reduced sliding friction on helical cut gears since 06
also helps wear compared to straight cut gears in addition to more noise generated from straight cut gears.
prefer Amzoil motorcycle oil made to JASCO MA specifications or Mobil 1 racing 4T 10W40 motorcycle oil made to API SH specifications & JASCO MA
Believe Mobil1 V Twin SAE 20W50 oil is acceptable in the XL wet clutch/trans case.
new lableling on Mobil 1 V Twin 20W50 does not mention JASCO MA ,which is the Japanese specification for 4 stroke common engine/trans case.
Viscosity range of SAE 20W50 motor oil overlaps with 75W90 gear oil, since both oils use a different viscosity scale.
The oil is formulated with friction modifiers for hypoid gear differentials with with high degree of sliding frictional for optimum lubricity(slippyness).
Wet clutch systems do not prefer high lubricity lubricant because a slippy oiled clutch pack could slip.
The benefits of group 4 true synthetic based ester oil is of little benefit in a wet clutch /trans case.
Low oxidation rate does not apply.
low viscosity shear down (loss of viscosity)from oil shearing does not apply.
small molecule ester having high lubricity factor along with friction reducer modifier additives does not apply.
however what is important in a manual non syco transmission is anti impact and anti wear properties.
high sulfur concentration commonly found in conventional gear oil helps reduce wear of gear cogs
which causes the trans to slip out of gear.
Reduced sliding friction on helical cut gears since 06
also helps wear compared to straight cut gears in addition to more noise generated from straight cut gears.
prefer Amzoil motorcycle oil made to JASCO MA specifications or Mobil 1 racing 4T 10W40 motorcycle oil made to API SH specifications & JASCO MA
Believe Mobil1 V Twin SAE 20W50 oil is acceptable in the XL wet clutch/trans case.
new lableling on Mobil 1 V Twin 20W50 does not mention JASCO MA ,which is the Japanese specification for 4 stroke common engine/trans case.
Viscosity range of SAE 20W50 motor oil overlaps with 75W90 gear oil, since both oils use a different viscosity scale.
Here is Red Lines official response -
Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, in the shared Sportster primary/transmission the 75W90 is recommended, a product that has been used extensively and performs well.
The 75W90 is the product we have have used for a number of years with very good results in Sportster/Buell transmissions, matching the viscosity and type fluid called for.
The 80W Motorcycle Gear Oil is a lower viscosity than called for, the ShockProof gear oils can due to their unique characteristics could cause sticking of the Harley clutches.
The 75W90 would be preferred and recommended over 80W Motorcycle Gear Oil in these applications.
There can be issues with some GL-5 gear oils in certain applications. Some can be corrosive to brass, bronze or copper, not an issue with our GL-5 gear oils, they don’t cause corrosion, pitting or metal removal. In a synchro equipped transmission the friction modifiers contained in many gear oils can make them too slippery, though not the case in a motorcycle transmission with dog rings.
So if you want the right viscosity and dont want to worry about it damaging anything, go with Redline http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=133&pcid=4
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Last edited by hexnut; 03-23-2017 at 04:28 PM.
#12
JohnTz
Believe H-D SYN3 is same formulation as Mobil 1 ,V Twin SAE 20W50 and also made by Mobil with H-D label. Have not verified this yet. don't much believe it till I do verify.
Redline was bought by Shell within the recent past. Have not heard this but I can check it out. Not listed on Shells media released for the last three years. You need to post a link
would ask E Buell what oil is used in his V Twin race bikes, guess it would be Amzoil
Believe H-D SYN3 is same formulation as Mobil 1 ,V Twin SAE 20W50 and also made by Mobil with H-D label. Have not verified this yet. don't much believe it till I do verify.
Redline was bought by Shell within the recent past. Have not heard this but I can check it out. Not listed on Shells media released for the last three years. You need to post a link
would ask E Buell what oil is used in his V Twin race bikes, guess it would be Amzoil
Phillips 66, which was spun off from ConocoPhillips a few years ago. ConocoPhillips is now strictly an exploration company. Well - to be more specific, Red Line was bought by Spectrum, and then Phillips 66 bought Spectrum. curtesy of bobistheoilguy.com
http://investor.phillips66.com/inves...r/default.aspx
HD was getting their oil from Citgo. I haven't heard about any change. The SN3 bottles are not the same as Mobil 1 V twin bottles. At least not the ones in my garage.
According to the "Material Safety Data Sheet" for H-D's SYN3, it is chemically a blend of 60% synthetic and 40% petroleum oils.
(1) 1-Decene Homopolymer, hydrogenated
68037-01-4
50% - 70%
(2) Proprietary Ingredients
Proprietary Mixture
1% - 10%
(3) Polyisobutylene
9003-27-4
1% - 10%
(4) Distillates, Petroleum, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic
64742-54-7
0% - 20%
(5) Distillates, Petroleum, Solvent-Refined Heavy Paraffinic
64741-88-4
0% - 20%
(6) Zinc Alkyldithiophosphate
68649-42-3
0% - 2%
Item (1) is a Group IV base oil. unable to locate the manufacturer of this base oil. Group IV and V base oils are the only "true" synthetics to the cognoscenti.
Item (2) is probably their additive package (boron, calcium, magnesium, phosphorous, moly), but it is conceivable there could also be some "secret" synthetic oil, maybe an ester type oil, included in it.
Item (3) is a fancy name for synthetic rubber (or elastomer) but this is probably considered to be "synthetic" oil as well.
Item (4) is a Group II base oil, namely Conoco Pure Performance Base Oil, either 110N, 225N or 600N. Pretty much no one is calling a Group II oil a synthetic.
Item (5), No specific information on this group but it is Conoco's Cit-Con 650N Base Oil. It's presumed that it is a Group I oil as it is solvent refined. Most quality blenders are not using Group I oils in their premium motor oils and they are not considered synthetics.
(From the MSDS for the HD 360 20w50 oil: The major base oil constituents in it are the same ones as are listed in Items (4) & (5) above.) H-D 360 is marketed as a non-synthetic, conventional (petroleum-based) lubricant.
Items (4) & (5) above, are likely needed to keep the old air-heads running without bearing skid and gasket leaks. This design flaw is clearly stated on Harley Davidson's own web site.
Last edited by hexnut; 03-24-2017 at 10:33 AM.
#13
Join Date: Sep 2013
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I'm not out to critique bro. These are just my personal recollections.
#16
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#19
BINGO, I use the same. I'm quite happy with the product. I will continue to use Redline products. Oil Threads, like talking about politics or religion in a bar.
#20
Join Date: Sep 2012
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