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Set up to monitor CLI (closed loop integrator)(short term fuel trims) & AFF (adaptive fuel factor)(Long term fuel trims) to see how close the tune is, this shows how much correction is being done to hit the targets, less than 100 is pulling fuel, above is adding. Typically you want to be within 5% either way.
If you see trends like always pulling or adding 10%+, manually adjust the Ve’s in those area’s.
The AFF gets used by the ECM and applies changes to the VE base table but does not commit, so the closer the base tune, the better. Also remember to reset fuel trims after making changes to the VE or AFR tables
Do you use Magalog Veiwer HD to look at logs?
No I don't have Megalog Viewer but I do understand what your saying about the AFF and CLI, long and short term..
The front cylinder VE's appear to be pretty close most of the time +/- 2% the rear however is going as high as +14%.. I will use my data log to determine what areas of the VE's need adjusting and make the necessary adjustment to those cells.. If I make the adjustments according to the short term trims wouldn't that also change the Long term trims? Also won't Auto Tuning help me to do that without going into the Laptop to make changes.. I mean, it should get me close right?
One thing I will do to the rear cylinder is pretty much across the board do 10% because I'm so low that it would be easier (once Data Logged) to clean up the rich areas instead of the current lean areas..
Originally Posted by Schex
When auto tuning, I like to do the idle & low MAP area first, then limit the changes to greater than around 40kpa MAP on the next sessions, this stops decel from messing up the low map areas.
Something else, see that Quick Tune on the PV? Don’t use that, make all tune changes in WinPV, for me that always did weird changes to other parts of the tune.
honestly I've never bothered to use quick tune.. I always go back into the tune make changes and then reload.. With quick tune you really don't know where your at.. I still think my 4.9 injectors are too small.. My pulse width is hitting 23 on WOT runs..
And thanks for the advice, Much appreciated.
Edited: Just so you know my VE values from 3500 rpm up on the rear cylinder are at 110 to 118.. If I did do10% it would max out that area to 121-127.5... Another indicator with IPW being at 21-23 that my injectors are too small.. In the PV my cubic inch is set to 121"... Which is 10% higher than actual..
Last edited by 98hotrodfatboy; 12-11-2023 at 03:45 AM.
Using the Target Tune-Auto Tune application with your PV to generate corrections is going to be far more effective & accurate than manually interpreting the data and adding or removing VE values, especially if you are making 10% changes across the table. TT-AT uses a routine that puts measured AF data against the commanded AF and since it knows the effective VE from the ECU for any give point it can very accurately calculate the delta and generate VE corrections. There are also additional filters & logic in the auto-processed corrections as well. When using the AT app users have the ability to adjust some of the basic "setting" parameters on the device such as min/max MAP, RPM, etc. or for example if you only want AT to make corrections in a certain region of the tune or above/below certain engine temp.
Using the Target Tune-Auto Tune application with your PV to generate corrections is going to be far more effective & accurate than manually interpreting the data and adding or removing VE values, especially if you are making 10% changes across the table. TT-AT uses a routine that puts measured AF data against the commanded AF and since it knows the effective VE from the ECU for any give point it can very accurately calculate the delta and generate VE corrections. There are also additional filters & logic in the auto-processed corrections as well. When using the AT app users have the ability to adjust some of the basic "setting" parameters on the device such as min/max MAP, RPM, etc. or for example if you only want AT to make corrections in a certain region of the tune or above/below certain engine temp.
@fuelmoto Hey Jamie, just to update, I did not do a 10% across the board adjustment to the VE's.. I used the previous data log from an Auto Tune session and tried to match the New adjusted VE's corrections of the Target Tune to the VE table in the tune and will still auto tune that as well.. Lucas has me on track... Thank you..
So after updating my VE's I went out for another Auto Tune session and when I went to take off the bike didn't want to move forward when releasing the clutch so I tried it a second time and all was fine.. HM????
So I did a short run 5 miles or so because I had had issues down shifting so I pulled over to the side of the road and ****, FLOPPY SHIFTER.... The pawl spring broke so I had to cut it short and head back home..
However I did get some good hits in the VE's up to 4000 rpm and when I went to export instead of capping I Scaled, then saved and then loaded the tune.. I also loaded a copy of the tune into my laptop.. I checked the VE tables and everything was scaled down by at least 11%, puzzled.. I was quite surprised to see that so I then clicked engine size and was very surprised to see that Auto Tune increased engine displacement by 11% and is now currently set to 134.9 cu in.. That's a 22% increase from actual of 110".. I 'm pretty sure that the logic thinks it's a bigger motor so by increasing the engine size it will also change/increase fuel delivery as it thinks necessary..
I didn't get to do a Data Log after this auto Tune because of the broken shift pawl spring,. So when that's repaired I'll do another data Log to see where I stand..
Just to update the thread.. I had to totally disassemble my transmission because the shift pawl spring broke including the removal of the MGD to find the broken spring.. It'll be back together soon and I'll be back out Auto tuning and we'll go from there..
Increasing displacement will decrease the VE tables by the same percentage to get the same amount of fuel.
If it prompts you to cap or scale, it means one or more cells has reached it's max of 127.5 and can't add any more fuel. To do so, requires scaling.
Rule of thumb...scale twice before capping.
I did an auto tune session on the 2nd of January after I finished up the trans.. So the auto tune session lasted a 1/2 hour and I could see in the live hits table that it was lowering the VE tables.. So when I stopped, I exported and down loaded the new tune. For the return trip I data logged the new tune..
I wasn't happy with what I saw.. The new tune was leaned out enough that it was causing the knock detection to reduce the timing by up to 6° in the 1500-2500 rpm and 38-45 kPa range but only in the rear cylinder (light tip in 2-5% throttle) So I downloaded the tune to check my VE's there and they were considerable lower than the previous tune.. So I manually changed that area in the VE tables and also lowered the timing 2°across the board on the rear cylinder.. I confirmed the lean issue in the rear cylinder by comparing my rear IPW to the front and it was lower by as much as a full point.. In previous data logs the rear usually ran about .3 milliseconds lower than the front.. . If anything the rear should be a tad higher than the front to compensate for the temperature increase of the rear over the front..
So I might have to play with the VE's some more.. So with the corrections in the latest tune I'll have to get out and do another data log..
Quick question.. For the timing comparison of the front to rear cylinder, should the rear generally be 2° less than the front because of heat.. Thanks.. And Happy New Year..
One more thing could the colder temperatures, 38°, attribute to the lean condition in the rear? Or would it affect any of it? I think it would be both cylinders not just one..
Any ways Happy New Year's..
Last edited by 98hotrodfatboy; 01-03-2024 at 02:41 PM.
Set up to monitor CLI (closed loop integrator)(short term fuel trims) & AFF (adaptive fuel factor)(Long term fuel trims) to see how close the tune is, this shows how much correction is being done to hit the targets, less than 100 is pulling fuel, above is adding. Typically you want to be within 5% either way.
If you see trends like always pulling or adding 10%+, manually adjust the Ve’s in those area’s.
The AFF gets used by the ECM and applies changes to the VE base table but does not commit, so the closer the base tune, the better. Also remember to reset fuel trims after making changes to the VE or AFR tables
Do you use Magalog Veiwer HD to look at logs?
@Schex
Just wanted to show a snap shot of how tuning is going.. I took your advice and in the data log was able to see the differences in changes of the CLI and AFF for both front and rear cylinders.. With that info I did go back into the VE tables and made adjustments to the values in the area where there was more than a 5% differential.. I guess you could say that by doing that I'm narrowing the band which should help the ECM to make the necessary changes even quicker which should help in the efficiency of the entire system, ( making it a little more accurate).. I've done several hits and so far no detonation nothing.. The bike is running extremely well.. In fact in the snap shot the elapsed time was 1.004 seconds to go from 20.51 mph to 41.01 mph.. This was a first gear throttle up and it pulled the front wheel off the ground.. The engine is running smoother as well throughout the entire rpm range..
Last edited by 98hotrodfatboy; 01-15-2024 at 07:22 AM.
12-11-2023, 03:28 AM
